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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 8:05:06 GMT -6
Gretalyn it is great that you're doing so well and that you are back hanging out with us. I use Excel and love it when someone else figures out the formulas for anything. I don't like that part and so don't do it. Well, auto-sum is easy enough. Off for an overnight hanging with friends out of town. Funeral tomorrow for a cousin, also out of town though I will be back in my slot here tomorrow evening. Sunday I am going to be a slug.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 8:38:44 GMT -6
Woke up to a 3.2 pound bounce today, so I guess that whole "dropped into the 120's" thing was a fluke. Ha! Oh well. Really, that's not a problem, because I'm quite happy in the 130-134 range. Plus, I'm very sore from my workout, so I think the bounce may have been due to inflammation, water retention, etc. Do you guys make a conscious effort to consume salt? I thought that the need to increase salt intake was mostly during the transition into ketosis, and after that you didn't need to worry about it so much. I'm certainly not stingy in flavoring my food with salt, but I don't really make any kind of effort to make sure I'm getting enough. And I have struggled a lot with light-headedness and muscle cramps over the last couple of years (and my blood pressure is always at the very lowest end of the normal range). After watching the videos that kewlkat posted (the conference in Australia) I'm starting to think that salt may be my problem. I have noticed that drinking some pickle juice really helps the muscle cramps! So last night before bed I drank some salty broth, and I'm going to try to remember to do that every day. What other ways would you recommend for getting more salt? I really thought that I was getting enough, but maybe I need a lot more than I realized. On a completely unrelated note, my daughter cut her waist-length hair to chin-length yesterday to donate it to charity, for making wigs for kids who have lost their hair due to medical conditions or injuries. I'm proud of her, and she looks amazing -- older and more sophisticated, which is not necessarily what a mom wants for her 15 year old daughter, but she really does look gorgeous! She has had waist-length hair for so many years that I had come to view her hair as part of who she is. So now she's someone very different! It was only a fluke if gravity suspended itself while you were on the scale Yeah, soreness and other less overt inflammation will typically cause a lot of water retention. The shot of sodium late at night might have contributed to it too. "Do you guys make a conscious effort to consume salt?" Yes. You almost have to make a conscious effort because 'low sodium' has achieved the level of mindless adulation that ELMM has in society. So if you don't watch out for it you may not get enough because the whole world is trying to kill you with too little salt. Not to be overly dramatic heh. I have broth made with two chicken bouillon cubes just about every single day. I really love it though. It is the broth from boiling my veggie with added butter and bacon grease, pepper and crushed red pepper. If I don't have a veggie side dish or I fry my veggie with the meat dish then I just put 28g of cabbage in the broth to flavor it. Depending on the meat dish, I may just add the bouillon to the dish as an ingredient and not have the broth. "I thought that the need to increase salt intake was mostly during the transition into ketosis, and after that you didn't need to worry about it so much" No. Low carb eating, even LC that is not strictly ketogenic, is going to signal your body that it doesn't need to retain extra water which it does for high carb eating. That means you go to the bathroom more often and that means you are shedding more sodium more often so it needs to be replaced by bumping up your sodium intake. When your sodium gets too low your body starts shedding potassium to conserve the all important life sustaining sodium and that is what causes you to cramp. So you might try a combination of bumping your sodium a little and supplementing with a couple 99mg potassium pills daily (because that also gets expelled in the bathroom). Another thing about night time cramps... (I read this a while back so if I mangle the explanation beg pardon) when you are horizontal for an extended period the fluid tends to seep out of tissue and pool which creates areas of highly localized dehydration. That is why you can walk off a cramp. [back to me now] I wonder if that means that a cramp that is hard to just walk off is a big sign that your electrolytes are very out of whack? Of course, if fluid seepage can bring on the cramp your electrolytes were probably iffy in the first place. Also, supplement with magnesium if you are not already or make it a priority to include foods higher in magnesium - there aren't many foods particularly 'rich' in magnesium. I supplement with 1200mg (oxide because I am cheap about it) of magnesium a day. That was very sweet of your daughter
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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 8:52:49 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 178.4 and down one point four from yesterday's bounce. If you throw out yesterday's mystery bump the trend is a more reasonable point 4 down for each of the last two days.
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 24, 2014 9:40:09 GMT -6
Thank you, Darin, for such a long, thoughtful reply! Love that! I'm such a Star Trek nerd that your comment about gravity suspending itself brought to mind an image of Commander Data saying something about localized gravitational distortions. It would be a far more interesting explanation than the salty broth and post-workout inflammation, but I'm sure Data would be the first to point out that the latter explanation is the far more likely one. I have been supplementing magnesium (citrate) like crazy. Way more than the RDA. And it's barely enough to keep my muscle cramps under control. If I forget a dose, I pay for it. I asked my doc to check my Mg levels and they were at the very bottom end of the normal range. And this was with me taking 3x-4x the RDA. I thought that indicated something wasn't quite right, but all my doc saw was "normal" so he dismissed my concerns. I had read somewhere (Phinney and Volek? probably time for a re-read of that book!) that sodium levels affected potassium levels. But I wonder if sodium also affects magnesium. It is also my understanding that cucumbers are pretty high in potassium, so I wondered if the reason the pickle juice helped was not only the added sodium but also the natural potassium. Anyway, I will definitely make a conscious effort to get more of all three. The same bloodwork that indicated my magnesium levels were barely normal indicated that my sodium levels were perfectly normal. So I didn't think that was the problem. But I don't know how quickly/easily sodium levels can fluctuate, so one blood test might just be a snapshot that doesn't really give you the whole picture. Thanks again!
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 24, 2014 9:41:55 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 178.4 and down one point four from yesterday's bounce. If you throw out yesterday's mystery bump the trend is a more reasonable point 4 down for each of the last two days. That's great!
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Post by clueless on Oct 24, 2014 10:07:54 GMT -6
Wow gretalyn, that's a good point about the pickle juice.
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Post by clueless on Oct 24, 2014 10:12:33 GMT -6
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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 10:30:47 GMT -6
A mainstream zombie advocates a mainstream approach and she thinks she's proving a point? A thin person that has never struggled with weight isn't proving a damn thing. And her junk food diet is an insult to every overweight person that fastidiously eats 'healthy' with only frustrating results that trigger binge eating. Being fat is not a character flaw. Being a mainstream idiot is a character flaw.
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Post by clueless on Oct 24, 2014 10:40:04 GMT -6
A mainstream zombie advocates a mainstream approach and she thinks she's proving a point? A thin person that has never struggled with weight isn't proving a damn thing. And her junk food diet is an insult to every overweight person that fastidiously eats 'healthy' with only frustrating results that trigger binge eating. Being fat is not a character flaw. Being a mainstream idiot is a character flaw. So true, you have such a way with words.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 10:45:36 GMT -6
Thank you, Darin, for such a long, thoughtful reply! Love that! I'm such a Star Trek nerd that your comment about gravity suspending itself brought to mind an image of Commander Data saying something about localized gravitational distortions. It would be a far more interesting explanation than the salty broth and post-workout inflammation, but I'm sure Data would be the first to point out that the latter explanation is the far more likely one. I have been supplementing magnesium (citrate) like crazy. Way more than the RDA. And it's barely enough to keep my muscle cramps under control. If I forget a dose, I pay for it. I asked my doc to check my Mg levels and they were at the very bottom end of the normal range. And this was with me taking 3x-4x the RDA. I thought that indicated something wasn't quite right, but all my doc saw was "normal" so he dismissed my concerns. I had read somewhere (Phinney and Volek? probably time for a re-read of that book!) that sodium levels affected potassium levels. But I wonder if sodium also affects magnesium. It is also my understanding that cucumbers are pretty high in potassium, so I wondered if the reason the pickle juice helped was not only the added sodium but also the natural potassium. Anyway, I will definitely make a conscious effort to get more of all three. The same bloodwork that indicated my magnesium levels were barely normal indicated that my sodium levels were perfectly normal. So I didn't think that was the problem. But I don't know how quickly/easily sodium levels can fluctuate, so one blood test might just be a snapshot that doesn't really give you the whole picture. Thanks again! "Commander Data saying something about localized gravitational distortions" Continuing our trend of interconnectedness, I was just watching the ST:TNG Typhon Expanse episode a few weeks ago lol. That is one of my all time favorite episodes. Most of the Data-centric episodes were outstanding. "that sodium levels affected potassium levels. But I wonder if sodium also affects magnesium." Yes, that was in their A&S book. I don't think it affects magnesium directly but the low water retention nature of LC does because, as far as I know, all electrolytes are subject to excretion so more frequent trips to the bathroom because the body doesn't need the fluid at that particular time means an ever revolving intake/expulsion of all the important minerals. "but also the natural potassium." I agree. That juice is a good mix of electrolytes. I looked around and found this article that includes a small but interesting study on the efficacy of pickle juice for relieving cramps. www.popsugar.com/fitness/Pickle-Juice-Electrolyte-Replacement-5910387"The same bloodwork that indicated my magnesium levels were barely normal indicated that my sodium levels were perfectly normal." Yes but was the normal reading because your levels were actually normal or because the body had taken steps to artificially, as it were, maintain a normal range by way of sacrificing other minerals? Did you doc have any thoughts on why your mag was low?
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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 10:47:01 GMT -6
A mainstream zombie advocates a mainstream approach and she thinks she's proving a point? A thin person that has never struggled with weight isn't proving a damn thing. And her junk food diet is an insult to every overweight person that fastidiously eats 'healthy' with only frustrating results that trigger binge eating. Being fat is not a character flaw. Being a mainstream idiot is a character flaw. So true, you have such a way with words.
heh people like that make me angry
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Post by reddarin on Oct 24, 2014 18:44:23 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,512
Fat: 221 Pro: 94 Car: 46 KR: 2.00
78/15/7
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 24, 2014 22:16:24 GMT -6
I've had fun with my friends and too much food and too much wine. Not missing getting on the scale the past couple of weeks. there will be hell to pay--or jeans that are too snug.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 25, 2014 8:30:37 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 179.6 for a one point two big bounce which is not completely unexpected because the way things worked out I didn't eat until about 6pm last night and when I go that long between morning liquid calories and solid food I usually see a big bounce the next morning
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Post by reddarin on Oct 25, 2014 8:47:58 GMT -6
Oh. Something else I've been trying to do for the last couple of weeks is get 15 to 20 minutes of pure sunlight exposure a day.
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 25, 2014 8:50:11 GMT -6
Continuing our trend of interconnectedness, I was just watching the ST:TNG Typhon Expanse episode a few weeks ago lol. That is one of my all time favorite episodes. Most of the Data-centric episodes were outstanding. Yes, that episode would be on my list of "top five" for sure. And Data was usually the most interesting character on the show. Yes, that was in their A&S book. I don't think it affects magnesium directly but the low water retention nature of LC does because, as far as I know, all electrolytes are subject to excretion so more frequent trips to the bathroom because the body doesn't need the fluid at that particular time means an ever revolving intake/expulsion of all the important minerals.Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. Yes but was the normal reading because your levels were actually normal or because the body had taken steps to artificially, as it were, maintain a normal range by way of sacrificing other minerals? Did you doc have any thoughts on why your mag was low?
Wow, good question! I have no idea. And my doc didn't consider my Mg level low because the reference range on the lab sheet put it (just barely) inside the normal range. So he said I had nothing to worry about, but also provided no alternative explanation for my chronic muscle cramps. He told me to ice (which I have discovered makes the problem WORSE, though a heating pad helps) and take advil and a muscle relaxant which he prescribed. I resort to the muscle relaxant only when the cramps are unbearable, because the side effects are pretty unpleasant. My Doc has been fantastic with regard to other aspects of my care. For example, any other doctor would tell me that my LDL cholesterol is too high, and try to put me on statins. (I know this for a fact because once when I called with a question and he was out of the office, another doctor at that clinic was looking at my records, and told me I needed to get on statins immediately. No thanks!) He has the sense to say that in the presence of such awesomely high HDL and low triglycerides, I shouldn't worry about my LDL. He caught a diagnosis that others had missed. Overall, I really like him. But he doesn't seem to know what to do about these problematic cramps.
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 25, 2014 8:55:18 GMT -6
I've had fun with my friends and too much food and too much wine. Not missing getting on the scale the past couple of weeks. there will be hell to pay--or jeans that are too snug. Every once in awhile, an indulgence is worth the price! I'm glad that you had such a nice time.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 25, 2014 9:15:00 GMT -6
Yes, that was in their A&S book. I don't think it affects magnesium directly but the low water retention nature of LC does because, as far as I know, all electrolytes are subject to excretion so more frequent trips to the bathroom because the body doesn't need the fluid at that particular time means an ever revolving intake/expulsion of all the important minerals.Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. Yes but was the normal reading because your levels were actually normal or because the body had taken steps to artificially, as it were, maintain a normal range by way of sacrificing other minerals? Did you doc have any thoughts on why your mag was low?
Wow, good question! I have no idea. And my doc didn't consider my Mg level low because the reference range on the lab sheet put it (just barely) inside the normal range. So he said I had nothing to worry about, but also provided no alternative explanation for my chronic muscle cramps. He told me to ice (which I have discovered makes the problem WORSE, though a heating pad helps) and take advil and a muscle relaxant which he prescribed. I resort to the muscle relaxant only when the cramps are unbearable, because the side effects are pretty unpleasant. My Doc has been fantastic with regard to other aspects of my care. For example, any other doctor would tell me that my LDL cholesterol is too high, and try to put me on statins. (I know this for a fact because once when I called with a question and he was out of the office, another doctor at that clinic was looking at my records, and told me I needed to get on statins immediately. No thanks!) He has the sense to say that in the presence of such awesomely high HDL and low triglycerides, I shouldn't worry about my LDL. He caught a diagnosis that others had missed. Overall, I really like him. But he doesn't seem to know what to do about these problematic cramps. Hmmmm. When I was a kid I believe the common medical vernacular for the inexplicable but not dire was "[season] complaint" like 'summertime complain' which I was once diagnosed with heh. But that guy is definitely a good doc with his pragmatic and knowledgeable response to your lipid panel. And wow! A doc that doesn't default to an alarmist statin Rx?? We need to get a palanquin and carry him around town to show him off. How long have you been experiencing the cramps? How often do they happen? Is there a time frame where they spike, i.e, during bedtime hours or some other sedentary activity? How would you characterize your fluid intake? How would you characterize your bathroom trips - on reflection do you notice that you began going more often which coincided with the onset of the trouble with cramp? Thinking about it, have you made any changes to your diet or exercise routine or possibly a lifestyle change of some sort? On a scale of one to five, with five being completely agree, what is your response to 'wow why the hell does Darin sound like an online poll?'.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 25, 2014 13:38:04 GMT -6
Jimmy Moore discontinued his Ask the Low Carb Experts show but his last podcast just happens to have been with fermenting expert Jill Ciciarelli. I'm sure I listened to it before but without paying much attention because at the time I wasn't interested in fermented foods. Anyway! On the topic of how much here is what Jill had to say: www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/2013/10/52-jill-ciciarelli-all-things-fermented-fermentation-101/34:25 [They are discussing K2 but she made this more general statement regarding how much to eat] "The other thing is, you know we all can eat probably eat a great amount of fermented food. We shouldn't be eating a ton of fermented foods a day. The human animal is kind of like funny in the way that a little bit is good a lot is better and with fermented food that is not true." I wish JM would have asked the natural follow up question of how much is too much or what indicates that you are eating too much for you yourself as an individual.
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Post by clueless on Oct 25, 2014 15:10:10 GMT -6
Thanks Darin, I will have to check that one out.
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Post by clueless on Oct 25, 2014 18:43:57 GMT -6
Log for today
Calories. 1698
Fat. 141 Carbs 34 Protein 68
75/17/8
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Post by reddarin on Oct 25, 2014 18:56:22 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,506
Fat: 211 Pro: 122 Car: 38 KR: 1.92
74/20/6
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Post by reddarin on Oct 26, 2014 9:38:58 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 179.7 for a point one bump. This marks the fifth day in the 179.x range [inclusive of the one-off 178.x WI] breaking the current pattern of shorter stays at a given weight and returning to the prior pattern of 4 to 7 days at a given weight. I'm very curious to see tomorrow's WI. To minimize exercise related fluctuations I have only been doing my version of exercise on Wednesday and/or Thursday. My version is just some slow controlled pushups with some dumbell curls and possibly dips and bodyweight rows (perhaps calf raises, squats, standing straight leg dumbbell lifts on one or the other day) but only in the 50 to 100 reps total for all exercises - so, not exactly what anyone would consider exercise in the common usage. My goal is very specific though. I just want to stress the muscles enough to contribute to retention and I'm not really concerned with growth while actively trying to get back to my before off-plan weight.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 26, 2014 13:30:20 GMT -6
Jimmy Moore's LLVLC show with periodontist Dr. Alvin Danenberg (#884) was interesting. At one point in the show, sorry I didn't note the time, he said that baking soda with coconut oil was far superior to commercial toothpaste. He also said that baking soda was less abrasive than any commercial toothpaste. I have never heard that before. As my current tube of toothpaste is on its last leg, I squeeze every last drop out of a tube, I tried out the mix last night. I like it. I'm going to continue using it this week to see how it works. Taking care of my teeth is a constant challenge since I smoke and drink iced tea. livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the-llvlc-show-episode-884-periodontist-dr-alvin-danenberg-uses-primal-nutrition-with-patients/23733
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Post by clueless on Oct 26, 2014 17:57:21 GMT -6
CT mentioned making her own tooth paste a long time ago. I make it from co, baking soda and peppermint extract, sometimes I add xylitol too. I but toothpaste for the family but I use both. I think the homemade does a better job. I make my own mouthwash too. I just made up a recipe so I don't really know if it's good for you and all that. I like it and it's slot cheaper, and I read that mouthwash caused cancer, (like everything else) so I figure what the heck. I used baking soda, xylitol or stevia, peppermint extract, rubbing alcohol and water. Lol I thought about using some everclear but alcohol is way cheaper.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 26, 2014 18:33:49 GMT -6
CT mentioned making her own tooth paste a long time ago. I make it from co, baking soda and peppermint extract, sometimes I add xylitol too. I but toothpaste for the family but I use both. I think the homemade does a better job. I make my own mouthwash too. I just made up a recipe so I don't really know if it's good for you and all that. I like it and it's slot cheaper, and I read that mouthwash caused cancer, (like everything else) so I figure what the heck. I used baking soda, xylitol or stevia, peppermint extract, rubbing alcohol and water. Lol I thought about using some everclear but alcohol is way cheaper. Yeah I forgot about CT's toothpaste. I wonder how she is doing these days? I might try a little peppermint extract in the stuff I made yesterday, that's a good idea
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Post by reddarin on Oct 26, 2014 18:34:05 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,331
Fat: 207 Pro: 93 Car: 32 KR: 2.17
78/17/5
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 26, 2014 21:32:59 GMT -6
How long have you been experiencing the cramps? How often do they happen? Is there a time frame where they spike, i.e, during bedtime hours or some other sedentary activity?
I started getting these cramps a few years ago, around the same time that I started experiencing chronic digestive problems which have been "diagnosed" as IBS (I put that in quotes, because it's not so much a real diagnosis, as a ruling out of everything else). Sorry to bring up an unpleasant topic, but basically I would get the cramps after a bought of diarrhea. So, obviously it was an issue of dehydration and loss of electrolytes. The problem is, the cramps have been getting worse, disproportionately to the digestive problems. Now the cramps are near constant, ranging from mildly annoying to excruciating. It's definitely is worse when the IBS flares up, but I no longer fully recover between flare-ups like I used to.
How would you characterize your fluid intake?
I drink to thirst, but I don't make a conscious effort to drink. I don't drink sodas, but I do drink a cup or two of coffee every morning, and decaf iced tea, sparkling water, and tap water throughout the day.
How would you characterize your bathroom trips - on reflection do you notice that you began going more often which coincided with the onset of the trouble with cramp? Thinking about it, have you made any changes to your diet or exercise routine or possibly a lifestyle change of some sort?
I have not really noticed any pattern with regard to urination, but maybe I just wasn't paying close attention to that.
The weird thing is, for the first two years that I went ketogenic, I had no more digestive problems, and no cramps. Then the digestive problems and the cramps returned, and I do not know why. I really can't think of ANYTHING that I changed, and believe me I have really thought about it a lot.
On a scale of one to five, with five being completely agree, what is your response to 'wow why the hell does Darin sound like an online poll?'.
How about this instead? On a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being unhelpful and 5 being incredibly helpful, how helpful is Darin? 5!
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 26, 2014 21:46:46 GMT -6
I just now got around to reading this, but I agree with you completely! I think she proved two things. First, that it is very easy to fall into a self-righteous trap of thinking you've won a particular battle, not realizing that you never actually fought it. Two, that she just isn't a very insightful person. I mean, it never dawned on her all those times that she says she was literally FORCING herself to eat, that that's NOT what fat people do?????? Idiotic.
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 26, 2014 21:48:57 GMT -6
I'm being too lazy to post the details, but my macros have been within target, my weight has been right around the usual 131-132, and I've been exercising. Life is good!
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