rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 28, 2014 16:48:29 GMT -6
Kathy! What a victory regarding the lack of desire for candy. Yea! Gretalyn--online purchase. I found one at fancyladies.com and you'll get a jillion results from any search online. It's great because you'll have someone to help cinch you up.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 28, 2014 16:56:16 GMT -6
reddarin I'm on my Ipad right now, and it's not easy to quote and respond to your post in parts, so I'm just going to answer your questions en masse and hope that I've covered everything! Let me back up and give you a little more history. Before I was NK, I was sick all the time. My immune system was pretty weak, so an ordinary cold would turn into a sinus infection, and once even pneumonia. So I was taking lots of anti-biotics. And that's when the digestive problems began. So, no doubt there is a gut flora component to this equation. I take pro-biotics and eat creme fraiche every day, and it helps. But it doesn't seem to be a cure. (I read that these things can help you restore a healthy quantity of intestinal bacteria, but they do not restore the variety of intestinal bacteria that you had before taking antibiotics. Don't know if that's true, but it doesn't sound unreasonable.) So I had chronic diarrhea for a number of years, and then discovered that cutting out wheat improved my symptoms by about 85%. Then I went ketogenic, and things were 100% better. For about 2.5 years. Then I got slammed by my symptoms again so suddenly and severely that I thought at first I'd gotten a virus. But no one else in my family got sick. And I've had trouble off and on ever since then. I wondered if those years of digestive troubles added up to a reduced ability to absorb minerals, so I asked my doctor about that. He said if I was having any trouble absorbing nutrients, it would be very apparent, as I would be losing weight. And my weight has stayed steady. So he didn't think that was a concern at all. My doc has tried to convince me to increase my fiber intake, but I have found that fiber makes my symptoms worse, not better. Anything high in fiber makes me bloated and causes lots of cramping and pain. And it doesn't help the diarrhea at all. So my diet is pretty low in fiber, and that's fine by me. To be honest, and I hesitate to say this because I know a lot of people love it, but I've had some bad experiences with chiropracters that have caused me to question the practice as a whole. I have, however, had a wonderful experience with a physical therapist, so I would be willing to go that route. (I could see her again, if my doctor wrote an order, and my insurance would cover it, though my copay is still significant.) I've thought about massage therapy, but just didn't think I could afford the treatments as often and as long-term as I would need them for it to really help. I'm not familiar with the kind of therapy you mentioned, but I could certainly look into it. Did I cover everything? "but they do not restore the variety of intestinal bacteria that you had before taking antibiotics" *That* seems like something you might be able to hack. Particularly with the current awareness of gut flora health in our woe's community. Jimmy Moore recently mentioned the huge uptick in gut health talk this past year. I think I'd try to find out what variety of flora is addressed by which pro/pre biotics and start working my way through the list. I wouldn't worry too much about being strict LC while experimenting either - health before woe - stay as LC as you can but throw that overboard in a nanosecond if you find your symptoms improving. Once you are fixed you should be safe to resume LC. And if the symptoms return after resuming LC at least you'll know that your LC menu is contributing to the problem (though probably not LC in and of itself). Maybe even shoot Jimmy Moore an email describing the situation to see if he has any suggestions or experts to contact. "Then I got slammed by my symptoms again so suddenly and severely that I thought at first I'd gotten a virus" Something happened to turn it back on like a light switch. Something that directly affected your gut flora. Even if it wasn't something that was of note except for its aftereffect. The good news about that is that a dramatic change is much more fixable than a gradual inexplicable change. The reason I think that way is because generally a sudden event has a single cause but a gradual change can have God knows how many component parts that contributed to the change over time and what mix of components in what order made the change happen in the first place. "it would be very apparent, as I would be losing weight." No, not necessarily. He's thinking in terms of a clinically measurable problem with malnutrition and he's right as far as that goes but you don't have to have measurably pathological issues with absorption to suffer ill effects from sub-clinical absorption problems. Consider the person that gets diagnosed with full blown malnutrition from nutrient absorption problems. That person probably had symptoms for months or even years before the dam broke. I don't think that is necessarily the case for you but doctors can be frustratingly black and white on health issues. "Anything high in fiber makes me bloated and causes lots of cramping and pain" Hmmm. Generally those symptoms are related to soluble fiber not insoluble fiber. Have you ever tried gently and gradually increasing insoluble fiber while avoiding soluble fiber? Is that even possible? Perhaps not in whole foods but with a supplement it might be. And fiber feeds the flora so it'd be worth experimenting *very* carefully with *very* small increments, like just a few grams, over an extended time frame. "but I've had some bad experiences with chiropracters" Yeah, I think that field has a very high percentage of quacks that couldn't make it in medical school. No offense to the non-quacks. There are non-quacks though. Jimmy Moore and Rob Wolf have interviewed them. It is worth seeing who they recommend. Even if they are not in your area they can probably recommend someone they know and trust in your area. "I have, however, had a wonderful experience with a physical therapist" Excellent! Ask him/her about that back massage therapy and they may be familiar with it right off hand. If not you can ask if they'd look into it to see what they can find (because they are in the field they will know where to research it) and, of course, look into it yourself. I wish I was more helpful but man that was a long time ago and I only heard about it never experienced it.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 28, 2014 17:00:27 GMT -6
I think the right sort of chiropractic doctor is called a naturopath.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 28, 2014 19:08:24 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,451
Fat: 222 Pro: 86 Car: 36 KR: 2.24
80/15/6
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Post by reddarin on Oct 29, 2014 7:40:07 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 178.9 and down point eight back to the 178s
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Oct 29, 2014 10:05:51 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 178.9 and down point eight back to the 178s Where did you want to end up (pounds)? The recent photo showed not a lot left to lose and more muscle tone than before, especially in your arms.
You are an inspiration.
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Oct 29, 2014 10:09:19 GMT -6
Tuesday’s numbers Cals 1337 Fat 95.50 Carbs 20.69 Prot 90.91 Ok, I kinda perked up by the end of the day and Cub Scouts was super fun. I found the largest firm tomato I could find and blanched and peeled it for the brain. (So gross feeling! ) Oh goshI wish I had a camera. Those boy’s faces were PRICELESS! Boiled eggs for “eyeballs” but one kid said “my genitals?” OMG! NONONO. And Vienna sausages with fake fingernails stuck in for zombie fingers. All wonderfully gross. I had better sleep last night. Asleep by 12 for 7 hours sleep. Still a bit tired but getting better. I feel bloated today. I really attribute that to the lack of sleep, though my sodium was 4068g. Gonna drink my water and know it will be gone soon. Happy hump day!Happy Hump Day.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 29, 2014 10:40:44 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 178.9 and down point eight back to the 178s Where did you want to end up (pounds)? The recent photo showed not a lot left to lose and more muscle tone than before, especially in your arms.
You are an inspiration.
Thank you Kathy I have it in my head to get back to 173.x which is where I was before I went off plan. But I don't think I really have a number in mind so much as a body composition target - I seriously want to rid myself of this fat deposit under my belly button (which is not very visible in my latest progress pic) and the weird one side only love handle on my hip. I can already see the difference in the love handle these last eight pounds and I believe the belly area is smaller too. Also, I would very much, unseemly much, like to see six pack abs for the first time in my life. But I am not, I think, absolutely committed to any of those goals. Mostly I'd characterize my current agenda as coasting with an eye towards weight/fat loss to see where I land.
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Post by clueless on Oct 29, 2014 12:17:19 GMT -6
Those boy’s faces were PRICELESS! Boiled eggs for “eyeballs” but one kid said “my genitals?” OMG! NONONO.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 29, 2014 20:31:42 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,599
Fat: 228 Pro: 106 Car: 37 KR: 2.12
77/17/6
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Oct 29, 2014 21:32:35 GMT -6
Darin, thanks for the feedback!
About "hacking" the intestinal bacteria -- I had not given much thought to the idea that I should buy different strains of bacteria. That could help. I've tried a few different brands, and found that plain old Lactobacillus acidophilus seemed to work the best. But maybe there are other strains out there that could help, too. But I think the point being made was that you simply cannot restore all the strains of bacteria present in a healthy gut with probiotics. Apparently, there are literally hundreds of different strains of bacteria present in a person's gut before they take antibiotics. And most of them are simply not available commercially.
But those bacteria had to come from somewhere. You aren't born with them, right? Where DO they come from?
Oh, and regarding the fiber -- it really seems like both types bother me.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 30, 2014 9:00:16 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 178.6 and down point three. This run of 179/178 WIs has threatened to challenge my previous patterns. I track my rolling 4 week lowest weigh-in. So far [within the last couple of months], 178.x is tied with 184.x for 2nd longest string of 'the lowest number' at seven consecutive days. 188.x has the current title with eight consecutive days on the rolling 4 week lowest WI column. I also track my rolling four week average weight. That is surprisingly consistent, with only the occasional hiccup, showing a rain or shine .20 reduction as each old day falls off and the new day is added. I wonder if tomorrow will bring 178.x to tie with first place of if I'll drop and 178 will be vanquished to the recent history books. I'm doing some pushups and curls today so who knows if it will be up or down tomorrow
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Post by reddarin on Oct 30, 2014 9:31:10 GMT -6
Darin, thanks for the feedback! About "hacking" the intestinal bacteria -- I had not given much thought to the idea that I should buy different strains of bacteria. That could help. I've tried a few different brands, and found that plain old Lactobacillus acidophilus seemed to work the best. But maybe there are other strains out there that could help, too. But I think the point being made was that you simply cannot restore all the strains of bacteria present in a healthy gut with probiotics. Apparently, there are literally hundreds of different strains of bacteria present in a person's gut before they take antibiotics. And most of them are simply not available commercially. But those bacteria had to come from somewhere. You aren't born with them, right?   ;Where DO they come from? Oh, and regarding the fiber -- it really seems like both types bother me. But I think the point being made was that you simply cannot restore all the strains of bacteria present in a healthy gut with probioticsYes but when was it that you found that to be the case? A lot has happened in just the last few years with research on gut flora. For example, the ability to study bio-films directly has only become possible in the ~3 years. Here is a study from 2011 that mentions how new direct study of bio-films is to science: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21807247 ... and this paper from 2008, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18269340, says "Altering the composition of intestinal microflora through prebiotics, probiotics and synbiotics may improve the clinical outcome of patients with inflammatory bowel disease." Anyway, I would revisit the possibility of meaningfully repopulating your gut flora. Where DO they come from*That* is why I think you can bio-hack this problem successfully. And I think that you don't have to be 100% replacing them to be 100% successful. I doubt that any given colony of bacteria maintains a meaningful impactful lifelong residence - they must ebb and flow with diet, the stress of life and the ecosystem they call home. Perfect is the enemy of good. Oh, and regarding the fiber -- it really seems like both types bother me.I think it is worth finding out with certainty if both types produce the same ill effect but *I* don't have to suffer through the N of 1 experiment so I'll roll with you on this issue
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 30, 2014 10:24:40 GMT -6
Gretalyn--eat fermented food. From Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. "These beneficial organisms (lactobacilli) produce numerous helpful enzymes as well as antibiotic and anticarcinogenic substances. Their main byproduct, lactic acid, not only keeps vegetables and fruits in a state of perfect preservation but also promotes the growth of healthy flora throughout the intestine."
Make your own. It's pretty easy. We very recently had a discussion about fermented foods. A few easy recipes were posted on the recipe thread.
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Oct 30, 2014 12:43:43 GMT -6
Wednesday's numbers: Cals 1287 Fat 64.32 Carbs 48.45 Prot 72.17
No WI
Craving sauerkraut so went to our wonderful hot dog place. Ended up eating it with the bun (41% of my carb count) but was yummy. Been also craving enchiladas so I'm searching the web for LC Mexican recipes today.
I'm also searching how to turn my DD's straight long (to middle of her back) hair into Very curly almost afro for her costume. She and her friends have really gotten into Dr. Who and she is going as River Song. This will be interesting. (Can't find a wig in town that would work)
gretalyn Interesting topic. I've been aware recently that my gut flora is definitely deficient. I blame artificial sweeteners (diet soda) for 30 years. I'm starting to research how to get them back in order. I don't have the strong symptoms like you (no IBS, etc) but not working as it should. I remember giving Acidophilus to DD when she was a baby to help with chronic diaper rash. Worked. Ah, and the learning keeps coming.
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 30, 2014 16:38:58 GMT -6
It finally clicked that my bread excursions are the reason I am physically weary. At home tonight. All is well in that regard.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 30, 2014 17:58:28 GMT -6
It finally clicked that my bread excursions are the reason I am physically weary. At home tonight. All is well in that regard.
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Post by reddarin on Oct 30, 2014 17:59:10 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,666
Fat: 236 Pro: 94 Car: 49 KR: 2.03
79/14/7
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Oct 30, 2014 18:00:33 GMT -6
It finally clicked that my bread excursions are the reason I am physically weary. At home tonight. All is well in that regard.
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Post by clueless on Oct 30, 2014 18:07:30 GMT -6
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 30, 2014 21:56:36 GMT -6
That IS super funny Darin. Thanks for the laugh!
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Post by reddarin on Oct 31, 2014 8:00:31 GMT -6
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Post by reddarin on Oct 31, 2014 8:38:44 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning, drum roll please... 178.0 and the 178s move into a tie for first place with the 188s at eight consecutive days in recent history on the rolling four week lowest WI pound.x. Nice to see the 'new' low but annoying to see the .0 instead of 177.x lol.
I looked a little further back in history and not much further back I also had a nine day and a twelve day streak at pound.x - 190s and 191s respectively. That twelve day one is not a pattern per se because I wasn't keeping strict NK with a few days in the 80 to 100g carb range and several of the days in the 60g range. Along with the higher carbs my protein was higher too averaging in the 120s (about 1.42g/kg) for that string of days. My calories were higher on average, 2876, but there were three days (3600,3800,3800) high calorie days that skew the average. I wonder how I'd respond to 12 days of strict carb/protein at the same 2800 average calorie level. I think 3000, at strict NK levels, is maintenance for me but nothing is set in stone where the metabolism is concerned.
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 31, 2014 8:56:29 GMT -6
Sleeping in one's own bed is a good thing. My brain is more alert and the body is beginning to respond to not having ingested 47 thousand pounds of wheat yesterday. The re-discovery of "I feel bad" being linked to all that may be the click of motivation that keeps me sane when I go to Mom's tonight. I've been months of successful there and I will be again. Today would be a good day to start another long run of that, no? It'll be a day of catch-up and piddle around at home. It is beautiful outside, haven't had on the a/c in days. Any of you try lardo yet? high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2009/11/food-lardo-real-thing.htmlGreat stuff. I order it online. The link is to Peter Dobromylskyj site. He's a sometimes blogger. He's very scientific about studies and the like. Not light reading. I have read a lot but I skip over the dense science. Oh, I am smart enough to eventually figure out but I am not interested in that. Here's a couple of posts about what he regularly eats. high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-do-i-eat-fitday-analysis.html (from 2008) high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2013/05/what-do-i-eat-2013-update.html (from 2013)
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Oct 31, 2014 16:33:19 GMT -6
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Post by reddarin on Oct 31, 2014 16:43:06 GMT -6
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Post by reddarin on Oct 31, 2014 16:43:37 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,597
Fat: 232 Pro: 88 Car: 51 KR: 2.01
79/14/7
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Oct 31, 2014 17:51:12 GMT -6
I've gotten through the first two hours at Mom's and so I feel safe now. I had a couple bowls of salad and then an apple. Being full is no guarantee from the bread beast but I am fine this evening. Yea!
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Post by reddarin on Oct 31, 2014 17:58:37 GMT -6
You guys are kicking butt with the Halloween avatars!
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Post by reddarin on Oct 31, 2014 18:25:04 GMT -6
Wow! My right ankle has been bugging me all day so I finally took a look at it and it is all swole up. I can't think of what I did to make it swollen. I took some ibuprofen a few mins ago. Very weird.
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