chrispy
City
Posts: 440
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 268/235/ ?
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Post by chrispy on Jul 3, 2013 6:43:09 GMT -6
Hey Incogneeto! I had done low carb a couple of years ago and lost 28 pounds very quickly....for some reason only known to the gods, I crashed and fell BIG TIME!!!!! Just messed about with it till this last May....decided to join the good people here and have been able to stick to this WOE. Incredibly, I have found it really easy this time......I still panic if I haven't lost for a few days or bounce around the same numbers.....but Darin and Clueless ALWAYS calm me down, and help me on my way. I read the posts every day, I believe this helps me stay on the straight and narrow, and I'm always learning something new. This is the only forum I've ever posted on and I TRULY believe these wonderful people know what they're talking about, because of their own experiences, and their knowledge. So....Welcome and I hope you stay with us ..... you've got nothing to lose!!! (except some weight). x
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RoBiN <3
City
Posts: 418
Joined: May 2013
Plan: NK 80/15/5
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Post by RoBiN <3 on Jul 3, 2013 8:35:37 GMT -6
weigh in 148.6 :dancing:awwwwwesome!!! Love it! @reddarin - 185! sweet!! Love seeing the losses being posted! Welcome to newbies!
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RoBiN <3
City
Posts: 418
Joined: May 2013
Plan: NK 80/15/5
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Post by RoBiN <3 on Jul 3, 2013 8:43:18 GMT -6
No scale...for a while. Mon eve went to Jazz and had a decent day foodwise but argued with my SO all day - it got resolved but Tues was terrible - I stayed strong Monday during the high stress then just failed Tues...glad it's over! Ate WAY off plan...fruit and sugars galore...so def no longer in NK but even though I know I fell hard I'm getting back up today, dusting the sugar crumbs off and moving on...I feel like I was in a bit of a fog yesterday...like once I slipped I just kept falling harder and harder and then knew it was over so just kept going. Today I feel "normal" and ready to tackle the day...My goal is to get committed (once again...) to my health. I'm not going to dwell on yesterday. I started my day with a big keto breakfast and will have lots of cold water today hoping everyone has a fab day and a wonderful holiday tomorrow!
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 9:07:29 GMT -6
Yeah, I've seen that before. Meh. Starvation mode is a clinical term that gets used casually around the internet to encapsulate the symptoms of excessive calorie restriction. That article takes the casual internet usage, expounds on the clinical definition and then says 'see nothing to worry about'. It is smugly smarmy. It isn't like you are perfectly fine one day and then in starvation mode the next with no preamble. There is a ramp up to the point where you enter the clinical state of starvation mode. Too much of a calorie restriction causes the thyroid to shut down, the metabolism slows down to preserve energy, adrenal glands react, cortisol shoots up, etc. Aside from the physiological reactions to too much of a caloric deficit there is the problem of creating a situation where you will fail. You'll be caught somewhere hungry and end up binging. It is hard enough to stay on plan in the face of temptation without taking a low calorie approach. Even with the amount of calories I eat, which is a lot compared to most LC people, I still stay out of the grocery store on some days because I don't think I can resist LC cheat foods. The emotional stresses of life certainly don't get easier with a low calorie approach. You are correct that there have been clinical studies that show that adequate protein with a very low calorie LC diet can preserve LBM, even increase it with proper exercise, Phinney/Volek refer to them in the Living book. But these clinical studies also ensure correct dosing of vitamins and minerals *and* the subjects are closely monitored. The Drs. are explicit about vitamin/mineral and sodium supplementation as being a key factor (because they make it a condition) in preserving LBM but they do not give any guidance on what is being taken nor what doses. Rightly so. They did blood work on their test subjects, for a baseline, and each must have had an individualized dosage and schedule of supplements because they don't want their patients to die. But out in the wild we don't have the advantage of 24/7 clinical supervision and monitoring. So while I'll cede the point that some people may be able to avoid losing LBM with NK with very low calories, I think that is the exception not the rule. And, as far as I know, it is only possible in a clinical setting. It is a lot more likely that you wont get your vitamins and mineral balance right and you will lose LBM with very low calories. Dr. Phinney said on the Long Term Stalls podcast (at 56:00) that it is very difficult to get proper nutrition when your calories are very low. And he said that he's never seen an adult over 5 foot tall that had a RMR, lay in bed do absolutely nothing, of less than 1200 calories. Which brings us back to the stress on the body when caloric deficit is too great. I wonder if there is an at home test kit for nitrogen loss? Or is that even possible? If there were I'd be more sanguine about risking LBM with very low calories but there is still the plethora of other issues that come into play with too much of a calorie deficit.
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 9:14:22 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning ... 186.3 for a big ol' bounce It is only annoying because even though I knew it'd happen as it does when I hit a new low like yesterday, hope springs eternal heh.
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 9:16:59 GMT -6
133.8 this morning. And it's still too early. Getting ready to head south to ATL for the biggest race in the U.S. Wow! An early weigh-in *and* a big whoosh! Hooray!!! Are you participating Chapel?
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 9:19:56 GMT -6
Good morning everyone! Well it couldn't last ........bounced 1 pound this morning!!!! But hey ho! I had a good run....Feeling well and stiffness is much better .....so all good. Have a great day everyone! cpresson - have a good journey! incogneeto - I lost 13 pounds in May, 7 pounds in June . Down one yesterday and up one today is two days with no gain Good job!!
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 9:20:44 GMT -6
weigh in 148.6 heh Hooray Cheryl!!!
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 9:36:20 GMT -6
No scale...for a while. Mon eve went to Jazz and had a decent day foodwise but argued with my SO all day - it got resolved but Tues was terrible - I stayed strong Monday during the high stress then just failed Tues...glad it's over! Ate WAY off plan...fruit and sugars galore...so def no longer in NK but even though I know I fell hard I'm getting back up today, dusting the sugar crumbs off and moving on...I feel like I was in a bit of a fog yesterday...like once I slipped I just kept falling harder and harder and then knew it was over so just kept going. Today I feel "normal" and ready to tackle the day...My goal is to get committed (once again...) to my health. I'm not going to dwell on yesterday. I started my day with a big keto breakfast and will have lots of cold water today hoping everyone has a fab day and a wonderful holiday tomorrow! That was yesterday! You are back on track today!! Good job getting back on your feet!
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Post by clueless on Jul 3, 2013 10:06:44 GMT -6
No scale...for a while. Mon eve went to Jazz and had a decent day foodwise but argued with my SO all day - it got resolved but Tues was terrible - I stayed strong Monday during the high stress then just failed Tues...glad it's over! Ate WAY off plan...fruit and sugars galore...so def no longer in NK but even though I know I fell hard I'm getting back up today, dusting the sugar crumbs off and moving on...I feel like I was in a bit of a fog yesterday...like once I slipped I just kept falling harder and harder and then knew it was over so just kept going. Today I feel "normal" and ready to tackle the day...My goal is to get committed (once again...) to my health. I'm not going to dwell on yesterday. I started my day with a big keto breakfast and will have lots of cold water today hoping everyone has a fab day and a wonderful holiday tomorrow! :hugs:Way ta go girl. I'ma send ya some cookies to toss out the dang car window! You can do it!
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Post by clueless on Jul 3, 2013 10:09:44 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning ... 186.3 for a big ol' bounce It is only annoying because even though I knew it'd happen as it does when I hit a new low like yesterday, hope springs eternal heh. Hey That is pretty doggone good. You were bouncing to 187 and 189 last week. Wonder if laying off the exercise is helping. Just a couple of days of laying off and you were 185. (thanks Exercise Mafioso)
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Post by incogneeto on Jul 3, 2013 10:24:37 GMT -6
They are talking a VERY low calorie diet like 700-1000 and using 5000. I see over and over that if you stay above your BMR and lower than expendature, there will be no loss of muscle and we eat no carbs or empty calories , so we should'nt get into nutrient problems since we do eat veggies and quality fats. That is where we get our vitamins and minerals and it doesn't take alot of calories to include veggies. Out fat sources don't add much vits and minerals do they? I just can't eat so much and lose any weight. I have to eat closer to BMR or I just hover. LOL If you eat to cover your BMR then you should be able to survive without forcing all that extra fat and lose weight. That is what we want right? I know I can maintain my weight when eating more and over expenature calories. I don't get hungry so I don.t feel deprived. Do you and the others here find yourself hungry? Maybe you are not really in nutritional ketosis. I don't think many here have checked. I thought I was but had to drop protein and increase my fat until I was. Here's another link with comments for some discussion and feedback. www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/81391-starvation-mode-myths-and-sciencechrispy, I found them when I joined fatsecert to. I was using Fitday but is is so slow when logging food. Great group here I agree. I got someone all in a tiz at fatsecert when I said I ate lots of animal fat. LOL
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Post by clueless on Jul 3, 2013 10:39:16 GMT -6
incogneeto LOL, We have been brainwashed. It takes a lot of educating ourselves to find the real truth about nutrition. It is actually very very sad. I know some people I would love to help but they are sold on Low fat, and the notion that we have to have carbs. They cry and struggle and beat their selves up. They think they are some how not as good as the people that are successful at Low fat. It makes me very sad. Then there are people like some of those on Fatsecret that swear by eat less and move more. If that worked wouldn't we all be as thin as we wanted. Does any one of us sit around saying to ourselves, Man! I love being FAT!! It is so great, Bring on the cake! wahooo! Heck NO!!!! I used to think LC was bad too. That is what I was told and I believed it. I bought into the Low fat craze and it worked for a while. Till I was sick and fat again. That is one reason my weight loss is so slow now. All those years of low fat and way too low calories.
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 14:49:27 GMT -6
incogneeto I see we are not going to agree about this. No worries. I'll state my case again. "I have to eat closer to BMR or I just hover" Cheryl also has to eat close to her BMR to lose. But that only means it is right for her with her body. It doesn't mean it is good for someone that doesn't have to eat at that level to lose weight. And Cheryl experimented with more calories. And she has some complications with her metabolism. I'll say it again, loss of LBM is only one factor with a low calorie approach. You can, and will, lose LBM with low calories if you do not get your mineral, vitamin, and macro content right. Why risk it? So you can lose weight super fast? I understand the attraction to that idea, as a former fat guy, believe me I do. Wait, you say, what about not being able to lose weight at more than 1000 calories? What about people like that? I say, if that is the case for an adult then they need to see a doctor to see what is going on with their body. It isn't normal. They need to consider any existing health issues and meds, both Rx and OTC. They need to examine their lifestyle. They need to do all of that and if very low calorie is the only answer then they need to do it with their doctor's supervision. Outside of that, with a layman's approach, what if you are off on your assessment of protein, minerals and vitamins? As far as I know there are no overt signs of protein deficiency (diet and muscle atrophy) until you keel over dead or wake up in the ER. And that is assuming that a very low calorie approach actually works for any given individual. I know it is anecdotal but I've seen a zillion posts from LC'rs that are eating 1200 and less calories that are not losing weight. They post that they are stuck. The refrain from the low cal crowd is ... lower your calories more lol. As for the article you linked, it is almost a rehash of the first one you linked which is to say more of the same. 'Starvation mode' is a clinical term with specific biological markers that define it. Got it. As I said, the term gets bandied around the internet as a catchall for symptoms of low calorie eating. Putting aside the LBM issue, what about the other awful consequences of a very low calorie approach? Hair loss, depressed sex drive, impaired thinking, brittle nails, freezing, etc? Remember, we kicked off this conversation with your assertion that if an NK'r ate enough protein to maintain muscle mass then there was no bottom end for calories for an overweight person. ...Not eating enough calories is only dangerous if you don't have more then 7% body fat or eat enough protein. ... So, again, yes, it is possible to maintain LBM given the right menu and supplements, at least in a clinical setting with 24/7 doctor supervision with very low calories. It is also possible to die from it if your wrong about protein and mineral/vitamin supplements. I mean, that sounds dramatic but people have heart attacks with very low calorie plans because their heart muscle atrophies. Do I think that would happen with a casual low calorie, rather than very low calorie, attempt at weight loss? No, probably not. But thinking that you can eat just enough calories to preserve LBM in the form of protein without risk is wrong. Again, if you can link to any professional that endorses that approach without doctor/clinical supervision I'd be interested in seeing it. Even Phinney, who was referring to studies in the Living book that prove LBM can be maintained, even increased, with a very low calorie LC menu specifically says don't do it without clinical supervision in the Long Term Stalls podcast at 56:10. He is answering a lady that claims she can only eat 800 calories to lose weight. "Oh wow. I've done a lot of research on what we call 'very low calorie ketogenic diets' and those are 800 or less calories per day. I would recommend that nobody do that on their own because that gets down to such a low volume of food that there are a number of nutrients that one may come up deficient when eating that little food." nkevolution.freeforums.net/thread/20/jimmy-moore-talks-phinney-stallsFrom the article you linked:
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 18:19:25 GMT -6
Numbers and log for today.
Calories: 2,334
Fat: 172 Pro: 153 Car: 48
65/27/8
Breakfast: Coffee, CO, HWC. Lunch: None Dinner: Stir fry [chicken, soy sauce, jalapeno, cabbage, onion, bouillon, bacon grease]. Snack: HWC Float.
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Post by incogneeto on Jul 3, 2013 18:52:26 GMT -6
Whoa, Dude, I must have hit a sore spot. Sorry.
I was just trying to point out that dropping calories is not the end all and death. As long as you stay above your BMR you should be in no danger of dying and malnutrition. And No, eating 700 calories is not good I never said it was.
Again I am sorry, I was just trying to add to the discussions and knowledge of the group.
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Post by clueless on Jul 3, 2013 18:57:59 GMT -6
Whoa, Dude, I must have hit a sore spot. Sorry. I was just trying to point out that dropping calories is not the end all and death. As long as you stay above your BMR you should be in no danger of dying and malnutrition. And No, eating 700 calories is not good I never said it was. Again I am sorry, I was just trying to add to the discussions and knowledge of the group. By all mean, it is great to add to the discussion. I think it awesome that you brought it up. I learned a lot. I think bringing up ideas and articles helps us all. Thanks to both of you.
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Post by clueless on Jul 3, 2013 19:03:32 GMT -6
Log for today Calories 1521 fat: 119.32g
protein: 72.89g carbs: 24.49g Breakfast: 1 oz almonds Lunch: Omelet/ bacon / gelatin Dinner: Cheeseburger with lettuce, mayo and pickles. Gelatin and whipped cream Snack: hazelnuts, pork rinds
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cg037
City
Posts: 252
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 140/136/120
Plan: NK
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Post by cg037 on Jul 3, 2013 19:35:34 GMT -6
www.rippedrecipes.comI was just fooling around with the meal planner, its pretty cool! You can input your target calories and macros and it gives you quite a few different options for meal plans! I don't think I'd following entire meal plan suggestions, but I could work the calories out for one meal and macros I need to hit and it spits back some ideas of how to get there. Pretty neat.
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Post by clueless on Jul 3, 2013 19:49:53 GMT -6
Hey Casey, How are you feeling?
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Post by reddarin on Jul 3, 2013 20:16:36 GMT -6
Whoa, Dude, I must have hit a sore spot. Sorry. I was just trying to point out that dropping calories is not the end all and death. As long as you stay above your BMR you should be in no danger of dying and malnutrition. And No, eating 700 calories is not good I never said it was. Again I am sorry, I was just trying to add to the discussions and knowledge of the group. Um. lol it isn't a sore spot with me. Is it with you? I don't know how else I could have stated it to get my thinking across on the matter since you brought it up again. I've seen that stuff before on other forums and it is wrong for the reasons I outlined. And, beg pardon but, simply dropping calories is not what we were discussing at all as I pointed out when I quoted you earlier. I'm not sure how starvation mode crept into the discussion because it is a term I do not use. I quit using it when someone threw that first article on me months ago. But the effects of eating too few calories are well documented and have nothing to do with the clinical definition of starvation. Actually, you *did* say that calories didn't matter, 700 or otherwise, if you ate enough protein to preserve LBM. For example, 10oz of baked chicken breast is about 550 calories and 84 grams of protein. Or 12oz of Tilapia is about 435 calories and 89 grams of protein. That is plenty or protein to otherwise maintain LBM for most people, no? It is funny. When I was going back and forth with the 'simple as that' guy over at FatSecret do you know what he said about low carb? I said there is no such thing as an essential carb. His response: "well apart from the misery, low sex drive, hair loss and lack of tasty foods and low energy." None of that is caused by low carb. All of that is caused by low calorie. The kicker is he seems to have gotten his information from that Hitler meme he linked to lol. And that meme was a hodgepodge of crap from people that don't like Paleo or LC. But LC gets blamed for that sort of stuff because so many people sign on to the lower is better thing with calories. I agree that eating a well formulated LC menu at/above BMR level with sufficient protein should protect LBM. But I don't think BMR is a good level to try to lose weight at unless a person has carefully experimented with their macros and calories and that is what works. I think most people greatly underestimate their caloric expenditure most of the time and end up with a huge calorie gap that isn't particularly helpful for weight loss because it stresses the body.
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Post by lindab220 on Jul 3, 2013 21:26:17 GMT -6
Hey Incogneeto, yes I lost 2 lbs also. I'm a slow loser and nothing LC or whatever speeds it up.
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Post by lindab220 on Jul 3, 2013 21:35:44 GMT -6
Love ya Cheryl, you are so sincere. If you remember, when I started this NK forum I couldn't lose a lb. I had to raise my calories from 1200 up to 1500-1600 to see a loss. I went from 240 to today's 226.8 in about 3 months or so. Not fast but steady. Good post Darin..
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chrispy
City
Posts: 440
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 268/235/ ?
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Post by chrispy on Jul 4, 2013 2:08:43 GMT -6
HAPPY 4th of JULY to you all! Hope all is well and you have a wonderful holiday! 1 pound down this morning and feelin' good...... Love and Hugs!
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vicki
Village
Posts: 45
Joined: June 2013
Stats: 276/smaller than yesterday/251.6
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Post by vicki on Jul 4, 2013 4:20:59 GMT -6
HAPPY 4TH OF JULY EVERYONE!! I hope you all enjoy whatever festivities you have planned with your family, friends, and framidlies <friends who feel like family> Just remember, and don't forget..... Don't drink and drive, because if you hit a bump, spill your drink, you end up with a stain that NEVER comes out of your favorite shirt!! Be safe, be happy and above all...be happy and loved!!!
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cg037
City
Posts: 252
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 140/136/120
Plan: NK
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Post by cg037 on Jul 4, 2013 5:50:49 GMT -6
Hey Casey, How are you feeling? I'm alright, busy with school and yesterday I shipped Brett off to Hawaii for 6 weeks. Cleaned out the fridge of crap food so right now the only things in there are bacon, eggs, butter, and the Brita!
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Post by incogneeto on Jul 4, 2013 6:25:12 GMT -6
What I am seeing here is the protein from meat takes up a large portion of your daily grams. I am surprised that doing this as suggested isn't really eating massive amounts of meat like Atkins was, your proteins will go fast. Boy was I over doing it. How will this be sustainable over time? If you get out of this balance... the weight comes on fast as in the case of one member gaining 6 lbs over the weekend. No fruits, etc... I did see berries. 2 lbs losses for a month is relatively low isn't it? Thanks for the feedback! Actually, Atkins is not supposed to be meat-centric. I've been told emphatically that at least the last couple of books specifically address over eating protein. The problem is that the low calorie way of thinking is so enmeshed in our society that it warps well formulated LC plans, like Atkins, into hideously deformed plans that are low calorie and fat phobic. If you believe the only way to lose weight is to keep reducing calories then the default reduction comes from fat. Since carbs are already limited that means that meat consumption becomes the primary macro and source of calories. You can eat a lot of baked chicken breast and keep your calories low at the expense of fat calories. NK is a huge leap forward for LC because it defines a range of protein grams based on reference weight and is therefore an individualized goal. And the range is not set in stone so tweaking is always available to further refine the broad outlines provided by Phinney/Volek. And there is a defined BK range for further adjustment if needed or wanted. So while NK is a subset of LC it is far superior because of the limit on protein and ability to physically monitor blood ketone levels for fast very accurate feedback. How sustainable is it? What about those 6 pounds? As I posted in the What Is NK thread, NK operates at a level that allows the kidneys to dispense with the extra fluid they have to retain for higher total carb plans (including Atkins in most cases because of the Net Carbs). So what happens when you exceed the threshold (~50g total carbs)? Your kidneys start retaining fluid again. Consider the 6 increase on the scale. 6 pounds is supposed to be about 21,000 calories. So, do you believe that she ate an excess of 5,000 calories over four day's time? An excess, mind you, so whatever maintenance should be plus 5,000 calories a day. To gain 6 pounds in 4 days she'd have to have been eating about 6,500 calories a day. It is possible that she did indeed actually gain some body fat over that weekend even if her calories were a reasonable 1,500 a day while eating sugary fruit to abandon. Insulin spikes from carby foods promote fat accretion but it doesn't stop caloric expenditure so she had to be burning some level of calories. If any fat was actually gained, I think, it had to be measured in ounces not pounds. But NK has an adaptation period where the body transitions to fat as the preferred fuel for energy. So how quickly will the 6 pounds come back off? It depends on the person and their physiology. I know one lady on another forum that could binge like that and take the pounds off in a couple of days once she was back on NK. I also know several ladies that binged and then struggled to get the new pounds off the scale. Probably their bodies were having a much harder time making the transition back than the first lady. Casey binges and is usually able to take the extra pounds off quickly for an example on our forum. My personal experience, when I had unsuccessfully quit smoking and gained 30 pounds - it took me a long time to readapt. Very annoying and frustrating but I stuck with it and got through it. So if you go off plan the best thing to do is get back on plan and be patient. Most fruits are sugar bombs so it is best to avoid them. Once you get to maintenance you can experiment with them. Fruits that are LC friendly, like most of the berry family, are okay to experiment with just like with vanilla LC. Same with nut butters like peanut butter, almond butter, etc. Maybe you can enjoy them and maybe you need to wait till you are closer to goal. The only way to know is to experiment with things to see how they work for you. 2 pounds a month. You know, I really did not answer incogneeto very well when he asked about how much everyone was losing and whether NK actually works for people. The right answer is... NK works as well as any LC plan. Sadly, it will not work for everyone just like LC does not work for everyone. Usually LC fails because the person fails to become informed about what they are doing and their plan becomes a faux-LC plan with tons of junk LC friendly carbs and binge eating from thinking that low calorie is a winning weight loss strategy. But even leaving that group to one side, some people just have a metabolism that just does not respond to LC but that is a very, very small set of people I think. Are they eating enough calories? Even if your LC menu is extraordinarily well formulated you are going to fail by starving yourself because the body's reaction to low calorie (too much of a caloric deficit) eating is virtually independent of what is being eaten. At some level it doesn't matter if your calories are coming from donuts or coconut oil if the gap between energy in and energy out is too big. The physiology behind LC will fail because the environment it is attempting to operate in is so stressed from lack of energy input. Mostly it is about how well you work the plan and your expectations. Read this post I made about expectations: nkevolution.freeforums.net/thread/56/thoughts-weight-lossDo you expect to lose a lot quickly because you have a lot to lose? Really? Think about your logic there for a minute and you can see that one has nothing to do with the other. This is the logic that results in a very low calorie eating plan that will fail for 99% of everyone that tries it. I've seen people who seem to be knowledgeable about LC in general actually say that very low calorie is smart because your body has tons of fat calories at its disposal. Let's take a closer look at this seemingly reasonable statement. First off, exactly how nourishing is fat tissue? The answer is, not very. It is calorie dense but as far as being nutritious it just isn't very nutritious. Relying on fat tissue to nourish your body cannot be a good plan. Yes, burn fat tissue. No, eat so little that you think you are going to force your body to burn fat tissue. And very low calorie plans burn Lean Body Mass (LBM). Muscle tissue is destroyed with very low calorie plans. You start losing muscle tissue the first 24 hours of a fast. I mentioned that on another forum and gave proof of it from the first A&S book and a person told me I shouldn't post that because it might scare people away from fasting. *That* is the sort of thing that should scare people away from a diet forum. I'd prefer to know the risks of what I am doing than have someone decide for me what is an acceptable risk. I digress. Wow, heh, I really did digress. Dunno if 2 pounds a month is low for any given person. Whatever the amount is that you actually lose you still win because LC is such a healthy lifestyle. This is the post I was responding to. I was just supplying some info for the readers on what a low calorie diet is and that LBM is lost only under those conditions. I wasn't saying a very low calorie (less than BMR) was healthy or recommended. I was just trying to show that If you are eating enough protein, there is no fear of eating as low as BMR and losing muscle. The topic wasn't starvation mode, the topic was loss of LBM. I guess I wasn't clear. You are the one that jumped to the topic of very low calorie and starvation mode. I most assuredly would not recommend anyone go on a diet with 700 calories. Again sorry, I hit obviously a sore spot.
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Post by clueless on Jul 4, 2013 6:48:07 GMT -6
HAPPY 4th of JULY to you all! Hope all is well and you have a wonderful holiday! 1 pound down this morning and feelin' good...... Love and Hugs! :jumpjoy:Awesome!!!
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Post by clueless on Jul 4, 2013 6:49:58 GMT -6
Love ya Cheryl, you are so sincere. If you remember, when I started this NK forum I couldn't lose a lb. I had to raise my calories from 1200 up to 1500-1600 to see a loss. I went from 240 to today's 226.8 in about 3 months or so. Not fast but steady. Good post Darin.. I do remember!! Love ya too Lindy, You have such a positive attitude! You just have to keep trucking along and find your groove. You stuck with it! Isn't it nice to actually eat more and lose weight.
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Post by clueless on Jul 4, 2013 6:51:21 GMT -6
HAPPY 4TH OF JULY EVERYONE!! I hope you all enjoy whatever festivities you have planned with your family, friends, and framidlies <friends who feel like family> Just remember, and don't forget..... Don't drink and drive, because if you hit a bump, spill your drink, you end up with a stain that NEVER comes out of your favorite shirt!! Be safe, be happy and above all...be happy and loved!!! Thanks Vicki, Love starting my day with a laugh. Happy 4th!
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