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Post by reddarin on Nov 2, 2014 13:21:49 GMT -6
Welcome to the November 2014 Nutritional Ketosis thread! What exactly is NK? The concise description is here: link. Your goal is a low total carb, high fat and moderate daily protein regimen resulting in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. Total carbs are 50g or less. In short: Eat your required protein grams, keep total carbs at or under 50g and the rest of your calories are fat. Keep your calorie deficit moderate to lose weight. Tweak to individualize the plan. The fundamental shift to fat for fuel, nutritional ketosis, takes two to four weeks and sometimes longer - even much longer - you didn't get overweight overnight you won't enter a state of NK overnight either so be patient. The health benefits of eating LC are generally realized within days. The following section describes how you create your beginning macros. ProteinIn the book, Drs. Phinney and Volek recommend 1.5-2.0g/kg reference weight for protein grams. Dr. Phinney also covered that in the Long Term Stalls podcast. Interestingly, in a Fat Burning Man podcast, at 16:53, Jimmy Moore mentioned to Abel James that Dr. Phinney leaned more towards 1.0-1.5 grams per kg of reference weight.
Reference weight is the appropriate weight for your height as described in a height/weight chart. Although it doesn't need to be exact, it is important to use the weight that is closest to correct for you with the formula because overeating protein can interfere with weight loss - (from gluconeogenesis or not). So use the right weight even if you have a higher intermediate goal weight. You can check your frame size for a better estimation of the right reference weight for yourself. Frame size is described here.
Divide pounds by 2.2 to get kg so the concise formula looks like this: (reference_weight/2.2)*1.5 = daily protein grams.
For example: Your ideal weight is 150 pounds...
(150lbs/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein a day. Protein IIUse the 1.5-2.0g/kg from the published book as your start point. It is much easier to start at the high end and tweak down if needed than the reverse. If you are coming from a very low calorie plan you probably need the extra protein to rebuild lost muscle mass anyway. FatMost of your calories should come from fat. Carbs50g total carbs (not net) or less. CaloriesAccording to Dr. Phinney, an obese person burns about 30kCal per kg of weight and a moderately active adult close to their correct weight burns 35kCal per kg of weight. He attributes the difference, 30 to 35, to an obese person being more sedentary than a person at the right weight for their body.
From page 207 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living:
"As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone that has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35 kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are actually quite conservative expenditure values."
For example: You are fat, your goal weight is 150 and right now you weigh 225.
225lb current calorie expenditure --> (225/2.2)*30 = 3068
150lb goal weight calorie expenditure --> (150/2.2)*35 = 2386 Calories IIHow much should you eat? I don't know but it is probably not as little as you think. As you can see from Dr. Phinney's clinical experience, you don't need to starve yourself to lose weight. An obese person that is burning ~3,000 calories a day can lose weight eating 1800 to 2000 calories a day unless there are health issues that come into play - thyroid, adrenals, et. al.
There are many health risks related to eating very low calories, like loss of lean body mass and metabolism down regulation, and it is hard to stick to a plan with very low calories. Very low calorie plans frequently result in binges which will wreck your efforts at NK. Start high and work down as needed but go down slowly. Panic is the enemy of success. MacrosMacro ratios are a great tool to help you keep an eye on what you are doing but they can be very deceptive. 15% protein at 1500 calories is very different from 15% at 3000 calories. You can have great looking macros that are hiding terrible real numbers. Don't get stuck on macro percentages. Always check your protein grams to make sure you are eating to your goal. ExerciseYou do not need to exercise to lose weight. Period. Exercise is a poor tool for weight loss. What you eat is far, far more important for weight loss (and maintenance). Exercise for health. Get that straight in your mind. If you are exercising it is not for weight loss it is for health. Say it out loud. Write it down. Put a note on the fridge. If you have much to lose, consider putting off exercise entirely at least until you are well acquainted with how you are eating.
The belief that exercise is the magical key for weight loss/maintenance is so ingrained into our thinking after decades of propaganda from the Exercise Mafia, it is practically impossible to get people to rethink this shoddy paradigm.
Really. The AHA and the ACSM admitted it in their report under the Obesity, Gaining, and Losing Weight heading:
Physical Activity and Public Health: Updated Recommendation for Adults From the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Heart Association.
Even they don't believe themselves because they go on to recommend exercise for weight control. Whew. *That* is some kinda brainwashing right there.
Aside from the facts, which won't dissuade 99.99% of everyone, exercise has a risk factor that is never mentioned by its champions. Getting yourself injured is not going to help you lose weight. Not because of decreased activity which has nothing to do with weight loss in the first place, but from the systemic inflammation that injury brings about, stuck in the hospital where they are not going to let you do LC, losing control of what you eat because you have to rely on family or friends for food, etc. If you are going to exercise, do it right. Avoid exercise fads and high risk questionable techniques. If someone wants you to get on a medicine ball to do a barbell squat - run away. Stick to the basics and stay safe. Don't be an idiot because there are a gym full of idiots grinning at you and encouraging you to be one with them.
Okay, so you have decided to throw science to the wind and exercise anyway. I knew you would. What exercise should you do? What exercise can impact weight loss indirectly?
Proper strength training. Cardio is not a fat burner. Remember the note you taped to your fridge.
Dr. Doug McGuff M.D. wrote Body By Science. I doubt you will find a better program for strength training that fits NK so completely. If you have access to a gym you can do his exact regimen as long as they have the right machines. If you do not have access to the gym, the book gives a barbell version of the Big 5 you can do at home. You can also follow his regimen by substituting bodyweight exercises that fit the Big 5 categories he describes. Drew Baye has a demo video for the UXS product but it is full of excellent general information for doing a HIT bodyweight regimen. Typically correctly implemented HIT programs take half an hour to one hour a week.
Along with McGuff, Bill DeSimone has spent years studying the mechanical function of the body. He describes how to do training safely with minimal risk of injury and how to avoid stresses that create injuries, days, weeks, months or years in the future. You should read/listen/view what DeSimone has to say no matter what type of exercise you do. Daily/Weekly Weigh-InsDo you weigh in daily or weekly? Totally up to you! I weigh in daily because I like the constant feedback. *BUT*, if you choose to do daily weigh-ins you have to accept that daily weights are a snapshot in time only. They are interesting data points but that is all and they are meaningless without the context of time. In other words, weigh-in daily if you want but pay attention to the trend not the individual snapshot of weight. Tape MeasureYou should measure yourself periodically. Knowing that you are losing inches can help keep you from wildly tweaking what you are doing when what you are doing is working even if the scale is saying otherwise. And it feels good to know you have lost inches. A Lot To LoseConsider this when you have a lot to lose. SodiumConsider your own health condition and any Rx meds but... low carb is not a low sodium way of eating or living. You must get your sodium in or your body will suffer. It might suffer silently for a long time before it finally breaks. Or it might express itself as agonizing leg cramps. Those cramps are caused by dehydration and/or a potassium deficiency but if you are a low sodium consumer then your sodium deficiency is contributing to your potassium loss and dehydration. The body excretes potassium if it is forced to conserve sodium because you are not getting enough. That is how important sodium is to your body. Phinney advises 5 Grams of sodium daily. That is a lot of sodium. Fear not! Unless you are going out of your way to eat low sodium you are probably getting 2 to 4 grams in your food every day. A little extra use of the salt shaker will fix up most people just fine. It is worth taking a
look at
how much sodium you are getting if you use a food logger. Table salt is not one for one on sodium grams. If you've been a casual low sodium person then you should pay careful attention to what you are eating and dun your former salt eschewing ways.
The body will cannabalize LBM for potassium if it has to. So, low sodium -> sacrifice potassium -> rob lean tissue for potassium -> poor LC results. Last Month Thread
---I'll edit this here in a bit to add the previous threads created in my abscence 
nkevolution.freeforums.net/thread/179/nk-october-2014-thread
NK - March 2014 Version
NK - February 2014 Version
NK - January 2014 Version
NK - December 2013 Version
NK - November 2013 Version
NK - October 2013 Version
NK - September 2013 Version
NK - August 2013 Version
NK - July 2013 Version
NK - June 2013 Version
NK - May 2013 Version
NotesJoin in the conversation any time. Feel free to ask any questions you have. We are all happy to help you. Lurkers are welcome too. |
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rejoicealways8
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 2, 2014 14:13:46 GMT -6
Thanks reddarin!
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 2, 2014 15:08:37 GMT -6
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gretalyn
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Posts: 610
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 2, 2014 15:17:28 GMT -6
clueless You're sweet to ask. I bought some "Thermotabs" on Tuesday (buffered tables of mostly sodium chloride and also some potassium chloride) and the cramping stopped within 24 hours of the time I started taking them. It came back just a bit last night, and I realized I had not taken as many yesterday. So I incrased my dose again, and feel great so far today. I guess I just couldn't get enough salt by relying on broth, pickle juice, etc. because my body just doesn't seem to "want" that much (even though it needs it!) and the taste became off-putting. So the tablets are wonderful! Also, got my thyroid tested just to be sure, and my TSH, Free T4, and T3 were all perfectly normal. Not just "barely within reference range" normal, but solidly in the middle of normal range. So that's a relief! Still bummed about the amount of hair I am shedding lately, but hopefully it's just part of a normal ebb and flow.
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Post by clueless on Nov 2, 2014 16:02:12 GMT -6
Hey gretalyn that is fabulous! So glad the cramps are better and super glad your thyroid is great. You will figure out the hair loss too. The extra salt may even do the trick. You may have been becoming dehydrated and I have read that dehydration can cause hair loss. I remember reading in the ABCS of allergies asthma and lupus all the crazy things that are fixed by getting enough salt. Do you remember back in the summer when I was telling about my cousin having all those health problems and they were all caused by not enough salt. He was on fluid pills and told not to eat salt because of his blood pressure and heart. I told them way before he went to all those specialists that he needed salt. The doctors finally told him the same thing. |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 2, 2014 16:09:05 GMT -6
It was interesting. I wish he'd have spent less time in debunk mode and more time in exploring the how and why along with the limits of knowledge regarding the microbiome. |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 2, 2014 19:49:24 GMT -6
Hey gretalyn that is fabulous! So glad the cramps are better and super glad your thyroid is great. You will figure out the hair loss too. The extra salt may even do the trick. You may have been becoming dehydrated and I have read that dehydration can cause hair loss. I remember reading in the ABCS of allergies asthma and lupus all the crazy things that are fixed by getting enough salt. Do you remember back in the summer when I was telling about my cousin having all those health problems and they were all caused by not enough salt. He was on fluid pills and told not to eat salt because of his blood pressure and heart. I told them way before he went to all those specialists that he needed salt. The doctors finally told him the same thing. Wow, I had no idea about the dehydration and hair loss connection. I guess it makes sense that a huge number of things will go wrong if you're chronically dehydrated. I really hope that the salt tabs will help. Thank you! How is your cousin doing now? |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 2, 2014 20:00:25 GMT -6
It was interesting. I wish he'd have spent less time in debunk mode and more time in exploring the how and why along with the limits of knowledge regarding the microbiome. Yes, I agree. But in a way I found the article comforting. Like, if I just keep doing what I'm doing, eating well, taking reasonably good care of myself, then the microbbes will sort themselves out. My biome might look completely different from yours, but that's okay. I don't know if that was the author's intention. Maybe that's just my wishful thinking. But it gave me hope that the particular little micro-ecosystem that is me will find its own unique balance.  |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 2, 2014 20:31:19 GMT -6
It was interesting. I wish he'd have spent less time in debunk mode and more time in exploring the how and why along with the limits of knowledge regarding the microbiome. Yes, I agree. But in a way I found the article comforting. Like, if I just keep doing what I'm doing, eating well, taking reasonably good care of myself, then the microbbes will sort themselves out. My biome might look completely different from yours, but that's okay. I don't know if that was the author's intention. Maybe that's just my wishful thinking. But it gave me hope that the particular little micro-ecosystem that is me will find its own unique balance. ! Man the last hour or so I was thinking over what he'd said in the article because my take on it was critical at the very least [I'm out of sorts today I think]. But what occurred to me is that no matter how you read it he is supporting what I said earlier about being close enough is probably good enough. No? |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 2, 2014 20:32:19 GMT -6
I mean I felt like I was being contrary rather than thoughtfully critical. Or something like that  |
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rejoicealways8
State
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 2, 2014 22:15:42 GMT -6
We all yearn to be able to say "If it worked for you, then it will work exactly the same for me." It just isn't so. Many of the medical tests we receive are just a snapshot in time. This isn't to say that modern medicine is no good at all at any time. As we are all finding out here as we practice an LCHF way of life, there is so much nuance to it because we are each individual. It is fascination and frustration.
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Post by reddarin on Nov 3, 2014 9:17:57 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 179.1 and back down one point two. And the mysterious swelling in my ankle is almost completely gone |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 3, 2014 10:08:06 GMT -6
he is supporting what I said earlier about being close enough is probably good enough. That was certainly my take on it! Also, I came away with the feeling that the food I eat is going to determine my mini-ecosystem a lot more than any probiotic supplements that I could take, since those probiotics are like a drop in an ocean. But the foods that I eat will also feed the bacteria, thus determining which ones thrive and which ones die. It made me wonder if the benefit that I *thought* I was getting from probiotics was really just things coming back into balance, which would have happened with or without the supplements. |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 3, 2014 10:08:45 GMT -6
I mean I felt like I was being contrary rather than thoughtfully critical. Or something like that Nah, you didn't come across that way at all. |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 3, 2014 10:10:00 GMT -6
It is fascination and frustration. I liked the way you put this. So true! |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 3, 2014 10:11:32 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 179.1 and back down one point two. And the mysterious swelling in my ankle is almost completely gone Glad the ankle is improving! I had a two pound drop today, bringing me back into my typical range. |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 3, 2014 14:07:27 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 179.1 and back down one point two. And the mysterious swelling in my ankle is almost completely gone Glad the ankle is improving! I had a two pound drop today, bringing me back into my typical range. Wow! Nice drop heh  |
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rejoicealways8
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 3, 2014 17:31:53 GMT -6
I drank wine while out last night and, of course, there's the whole adjustment to the time change. Good day of food today. Expecting a drop tomorrow or day following as I continue doing the best eating way for me. I do feel much better today.
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Post by reddarin on Nov 3, 2014 19:46:41 GMT -6
Numbers for today.
Calories: 2,508
Fat: 224
Pro: 87
Car: 46
KR: 2.05
79/14/7
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
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Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 4, 2014 8:10:05 GMT -6
Got my one pound drop from the number of two days ago (now 134.8). Heading in the correct direction now. Getting a little physical exertion in the past couple days with the slow disengagement of my no-longer-useful water heater. Push, pull, use tools, all that. Later this afternoon I will drag it out to the street for pick up tomorrow. I am now going to switch to a waterless one since the price has come down to a place where I am glad for it to be. The yard could use some physical exertion, too, but I don't have the motivation to approach that right now. thankfully, I have understanding neighbors. |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 4, 2014 8:40:17 GMT -6
Weigh-in this morning 179.6 and up point five |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 4, 2014 8:52:49 GMT -6
Got my one pound drop from the number of two days ago (now 134.8). Heading in the correct direction now. Getting a little physical exertion in the past couple days with the slow disengagement of my no-longer-useful water heater. Push, pull, use tools, all that. Later this afternoon I will drag it out to the street for pick up tomorrow. I am now going to switch to a waterless one since the price has come down to a place where I am glad for it to be. The yard could use some physical exertion, too, but I don't have the motivation to approach that right now. thankfully, I have understanding neighbors. I replaced my water heater here a while back. Imma tell you what, that old heater weighed approximately six million pounds. I had to use a dolly to get it to the street. A few days later a scrapper came by, a guy probably 20 years my senior, so I went out there and helped him load it in his truck taking the heavy bottom end myself - no way he'd have gotten that sucker loaded by hisself - I couldn't have done it alone either without using a ramp or something. Anyway, if it is an old heater be careful of your back Ahhhhh a tankless heater! Man I love the idea behind that type. Let us know how you like it Pam. |
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Post by clueless on Nov 4, 2014 9:32:47 GMT -6
Wow rejoicealways8, that is a big undertaking. Let us know how it goes. I wanna know how you like the thankless water heater too.
reddarin :hugs:hang in there. How's the ankle? All the swelling gone?
gretalyn sorry I forgot to respond, you had asked about my cousin. He seems to be doing much better.
Today is an exciting day for me. I am going to hanging my paintings at the library this afternoon. I have 11 to hang. They used to have showings thru the art council but it has disbanded so the library said I could have a showing/sell. I think my daughter is planning on hanging a few too.
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Nov 4, 2014 9:53:18 GMT -6
Today is an exciting day for me. I am going to hanging my paintings at the library this afternoon. I have 11 to hang. They used to have showings thru the art council but it has disbanded so the library said I could have a showing/sell. I think my daughter is planning on hanging a few too.
How exciting, Cheryl!  I hope that it goes really well. Wish that I could see your work! |
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Post by reddarin on Nov 4, 2014 11:44:34 GMT -6
Wow rejoicealways8, that is a big undertaking. Let us know how it goes. I wanna know how you like the thankless water heater too. reddarin :hugs:hang in there. How's the ankle? All the swelling gone?
gretalyn sorry I forgot to respond, you had asked about my cousin. He seems to be doing much better.
Today is an exciting day for me. I am going to hanging my paintings at the library this afternoon. I have 11 to hang. They used to have showings thru the art council but it has disbanded so the library said I could have a showing/sell. I think my daughter is planning on hanging a few too.
My ankle seems to be whole again. I'm hoping for a big whoosh tomorrow heh Hooray!!! You'll have an awesome day Cheryl!!   Dede is the other painter, right? |
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Post by clueless on Nov 4, 2014 12:35:39 GMT -6
reddarin Yep DeDe paints, draws and is very good at pen and ink. Well she can do about anything.
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rejoicealways8
State
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Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 4, 2014 12:35:52 GMT -6
Way to go Cheryl!
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Post by reddarin on Nov 4, 2014 12:38:07 GMT -6
If you need to bid them up tell them you have an anonymous buyer in Texas that has bid $1,000,000 dollars so they better get 'em before the check clears.
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
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Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 4, 2014 13:32:44 GMT -6
funny reddarin. I have drug the water heater to the corner. Used a towel under it to keep it from scratching my kitchen wood floor. Turned it end or over end to get it out the door and down the three steps there. Walked it to the edge of the porch then let it slide down the three steps to the street. I wrestled it a little bit so that it could lie there out of the way until the garbage folks will pick it up on their Wednesday run. A metal scrapper might pick it up then--people are always trolling--but they will have no help from me with that I don't think. Guess it is time to commit to purchasing a new one now. EDIT: Later. And I did. www.globalindustrial.com/g/plumbing/water-heaters/Tankless-Water-Heaters-Gas/ecotemp-tankless-gas-heatersOught to be here by the end of next week latest. Still give me time to install/test it before I have a guest in my home on Thanksgiving. They might want hot water. Ha! |
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rejoicealways8
State
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Nov 4, 2014 17:43:52 GMT -6
Cheryl -- expecting some pictures about this art showing of yours...
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I hope that it goes really well. Wish that I could see your work!
