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Post by reddarin on Feb 1, 2015 6:58:50 GMT -6
Welcome to the February 2015 Nutritional Ketosis thread! What exactly is NK? The concise description is here: link. Your goal is a low total carb, high fat and moderate daily protein regimen resulting in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. Total carbs are 50g or less. In short: Eat your required protein grams, keep total carbs at or under 50g and the rest of your calories are fat. Keep your calorie deficit moderate to lose weight. Tweak to individualize the plan. The fundamental shift to fat for fuel, nutritional ketosis, takes two to four weeks and sometimes longer - even much longer - you didn't get overweight overnight you won't enter a state of NK overnight either so be patient. The health benefits of eating LC are generally realized within days. The following section describes how you create your beginning macros. ProteinIn the book, Drs. Phinney and Volek recommend 1.5-2.0g/kg reference weight for protein grams. Dr. Phinney also covered that in the Long Term Stalls podcast. Interestingly, in a Fat Burning Man podcast, at 16:53, Jimmy Moore mentioned to Abel James that Dr. Phinney leaned more towards 1.0-1.5 grams per kg of reference weight.
Reference weight is the appropriate weight for your height as described in a height/weight chart. Although it doesn't need to be exact, it is important to use the weight that is closest to correct for you with the formula because overeating protein can interfere with weight loss - (from gluconeogenesis or not). So use the right weight even if you have a higher intermediate goal weight. You can check your frame size for a better estimation of the right reference weight for yourself. Frame size is described here.
Divide pounds by 2.2 to get kg so the concise formula looks like this: (reference_weight/2.2)*1.5 = daily protein grams.
For example: Your ideal weight is 150 pounds...
(150lbs/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein a day. Protein IIUse the 1.5-2.0g/kg from the published book as your start point. It is much easier to start at the high end and tweak down if needed than the reverse. If you are coming from a very low calorie plan you probably need the extra protein to rebuild lost muscle mass anyway. FatMost of your calories should come from fat. Carbs50g total carbs (not net) or less. CaloriesAccording to Dr. Phinney, an obese person burns about 30kCal per kg of weight and a moderately active adult close to their correct weight burns 35kCal per kg of weight. He attributes the difference, 30 to 35, to an obese person being more sedentary than a person at the right weight for their body.
From page 207 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living:
"As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone that has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35 kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are actually quite conservative expenditure values."
For example: You are fat, your goal weight is 150 and right now you weigh 225.
225lb current calorie expenditure --> (225/2.2)*30 = 3068
150lb goal weight calorie expenditure --> (150/2.2)*35 = 2386 Calories IIHow much should you eat? I don't know but it is probably not as little as you think. As you can see from Dr. Phinney's clinical experience, you don't need to starve yourself to lose weight. An obese person that is burning ~3,000 calories a day can lose weight eating 1800 to 2000 calories a day unless there are health issues that come into play - thyroid, adrenals, et. al.
There are many health risks related to eating very low calories, like loss of lean body mass and metabolism down regulation, and it is hard to stick to a plan with very low calories. Very low calorie plans frequently result in binges which will wreck your efforts at NK. Start high and work down as needed but go down slowly. Panic is the enemy of success. MacrosMacro ratios are a great tool to help you keep an eye on what you are doing but they can be very deceptive. 15% protein at 1500 calories is very different from 15% at 3000 calories. You can have great looking macros that are hiding terrible real numbers. Don't get stuck on macro percentages. Always check your protein grams to make sure you are eating to your goal. ExerciseYou do not need to exercise to lose weight. Period. Exercise is a poor tool for weight loss. What you eat is far, far more important for weight loss (and maintenance). Exercise for health. Get that straight in your mind. If you are exercising it is not for weight loss it is for health. Say it out loud. Write it down. Put a note on the fridge. If you have much to lose, consider putting off exercise entirely at least until you are well acquainted with how you are eating.
The belief that exercise is the magical key for weight loss/maintenance is so ingrained into our thinking after decades of propaganda from the Exercise Mafia, it is practically impossible to get people to rethink this shoddy paradigm.
Really. The AHA and the ACSM admitted it in their report under the Obesity, Gaining, and Losing Weight heading:
Physical Activity and Public Health: Updated Recommendation for Adults From the American College of Sports Medicine and the American Heart Association.
Even they don't believe themselves because they go on to recommend exercise for weight control. Whew. *That* is some kinda brainwashing right there.
Aside from the facts, which won't dissuade 99.99% of everyone, exercise has a risk factor that is never mentioned by its champions. Getting yourself injured is not going to help you lose weight. Not because of decreased activity which has nothing to do with weight loss in the first place, but from the systemic inflammation that injury brings about, stuck in the hospital where they are not going to let you do LC, losing control of what you eat because you have to rely on family or friends for food, etc. If you are going to exercise, do it right. Avoid exercise fads and high risk questionable techniques. If someone wants you to get on a medicine ball to do a barbell squat - run away. Stick to the basics and stay safe. Don't be an idiot because there are a gym full of idiots grinning at you and encouraging you to be one with them.
Okay, so you have decided to throw science to the wind and exercise anyway. I knew you would. What exercise should you do? What exercise can impact weight loss indirectly?
Proper strength training. Cardio is not a fat burner. Remember the note you taped to your fridge.
Dr. Doug McGuff M.D. wrote Body By Science. I doubt you will find a better program for strength training that fits NK so completely. If you have access to a gym you can do his exact regimen as long as they have the right machines. If you do not have access to the gym, the book gives a barbell version of the Big 5 you can do at home. You can also follow his regimen by substituting bodyweight exercises that fit the Big 5 categories he describes. Drew Baye has a demo video for the UXS product but it is full of excellent general information for doing a HIT bodyweight regimen. Typically correctly implemented HIT programs take half an hour to one hour a week.
Along with McGuff, Bill DeSimone has spent years studying the mechanical function of the body. He describes how to do training safely with minimal risk of injury and how to avoid stresses that create injuries, days, weeks, months or years in the future. You should read/listen/view what DeSimone has to say no matter what type of exercise you do. Daily/Weekly Weigh-InsDo you weigh in daily or weekly? Totally up to you! I weigh in daily because I like the constant feedback. *BUT*, if you choose to do daily weigh-ins you have to accept that daily weights are a snapshot in time only. They are interesting data points but that is all and they are meaningless without the context of time. In other words, weigh-in daily if you want but pay attention to the trend not the individual snapshot of weight. Tape MeasureYou should measure yourself periodically. Knowing that you are losing inches can help keep you from wildly tweaking what you are doing when what you are doing is working even if the scale is saying otherwise. And it feels good to know you have lost inches. A Lot To LoseConsider this when you have a lot to lose. SodiumConsider your own health condition and any Rx meds but... low carb is not a low sodium way of eating or living. You must get your sodium in or your body will suffer. It might suffer silently for a long time before it finally breaks. Or it might express itself as agonizing leg cramps. Those cramps are caused by dehydration and/or a potassium deficiency but if you are a low sodium consumer then your sodium deficiency is contributing to your potassium loss and dehydration. The body excretes potassium if it is forced to conserve sodium because you are not getting enough. That is how important sodium is to your body. Phinney advises 5 Grams of sodium daily. That is a lot of sodium. Fear not! Unless you are going out of your way to eat low sodium you are probably getting 2 to 4 grams in your food every day. A little extra use of the salt shaker will fix up most people just fine. It is worth taking a
look at
how much sodium you are getting if you use a food logger. Table salt is not one for one on sodium grams. If you've been a casual low sodium person then you should pay careful attention to what you are eating and dun your former salt eschewing ways.
The body will cannabalize LBM for potassium if it has to. So, low sodium -> sacrifice potassium -> rob lean tissue for potassium -> poor LC results. Last Month Thread
nkevolution.freeforums.net/thread/191/nk-january-2015
NotesJoin in the conversation any time. Feel free to ask any questions you have. We are all happy to help you. Lurkers are welcome too. |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 1, 2015 7:33:10 GMT -6
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Post by reddarin on Feb 1, 2015 10:07:55 GMT -6
:jumpjoy:In the wonderful, weird way our bodies work, the scale showed a 2 pound drop this morning. I say weird because I busted the food protocol I've been following. I also chose not to get into action yesterday (exercise). This makes me at 6 pounds gone since I started paying attention the past twelve days. I'm also back to the number where in past years I got all anxious and then motivated about what I weigh. So it's a super Sunday for me. Hooray!!  |
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Post by reddarin on Feb 1, 2015 10:16:25 GMT -6
Well, my weight went up ANOTHER two pounds today over yesterday!!! If we had a "tantrum emoticon" that is the one I would be using here. I know I've got PMS hormones raging, and because I went off the benadryl I've got allergy and not-sleeping-well issues going on too. But could those things really make a person gain SEVEN pounds?!? Editing to add: I'm usually not one of those women who gains any PMS weight. So this is definitely weird. I imagine there is a lot of bodily stress and inflammation with your current experiment Greta. Probably the weight will calm down once your body adjusts a little bit to what you are trying  |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 1, 2015 10:24:19 GMT -6
I imagine there is a lot of bodily stress and inflammation with your current experiment Greta. Probably the weight will calm down once your body adjusts a little bit to what you are trying Thanks, Darin! I guess deep down I know that, but somehow it's reassuring to hear it from someone else anyway! |
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Post by reddarin on Feb 1, 2015 10:52:11 GMT -6
Greta I was reading about you giving up allergy meds. I heard about and read about those studies as well. I don't know if you remember but I used to complain about brain fog all the time. I thought it was thyroid problems, I also had severe fatigue and all sorts of struggles with allergies. Since getting off the allergy meds I have no problems with brain fog or energy. My memory and clarity are so much better. 8 months now with no allergy meds, well I think I took 2 pills when I had that horrible chest cold to see if it would help. Other than that none. Good luck. Oh, allergies can be rough on the scale too. I'm usually the first to say that we shouldn't draw any conclusions from observational type studies (they are just observations!) but the fact that this one showed a dose-dependent relationship indicates a higher likelihood of a real causative relationship. Plus, these drugs are (by definition) ones that are known to block a particular neurotransmitter. So it wouldn't be surprising to find that they have effects on the brain, for better or for worse. But I do really appreciate your point about having to balance these risks with other quality of life issues. We each have to make a judgment call about which risks and costs are worth it to us personally, and I certainly don't want to sound like one of those annoying people who wants to make that decision for everybody else! For me personally, I think it's worth it to at least do the experiment of going off of the benadryl for awhile and seeing if my memory problems improve at all, and seeing if I can live with the allergies or find other treatment options. I don't typically suffer from allergies so it can be a bit of a blind spot for me. But I have had a few really bad random allergies crop up over the years so OMG I don't want anyone to suffer like that heh You guys are right though. That wool blanket feeling is almost as odious as the allergies themselves. I'll tell you what too, in general terms I am not a fan of pill popping. Even back before LC I only took the analgesics because not taking them would inevitably lead to headaches approaching migraine level. I wonder how the current thinking that Alzheimer's disease is diabetes type 3 fits with studies that tie it in with other correlative findings? |
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Post by reddarin on Feb 3, 2015 8:45:56 GMT -6
Did you guys catch last Friday's Low Carb Conversations podcast? WW has added a new LC version of their woe. Wow! They discuss it at about 29 minutes into the podcast. www.lowcarbconversations.com/2319/lcc-schneider-blaustone/Boy! *That* is something! LC is about as polar opposite of WW as is possible, no? WW is the embodiment of the mainstream CICO Eat Less Move More ideology. Don't get me wrong, I like WW. I think their entire approach to weight loss is awful but they have a structured plan and the meetings garner social connections and accountability which are big contributors to individual success no matter what approach to weight loss you choose. WW has been bleeding membership for a few years now. They took a big hit like every other company back in 2008 but they rebounded better than most (apparently). That's interesting, is it not? When times are tight things like paying for a WW meeting go on the chopping block to save money - as witnessed by the hit they took in 2008. I think they rebounded so well because of the social aspect of the meetings. Personal connections are vastly more important when things are bleak and WW offers that in spades. Particularly for you ladies. Men clam up under emotional duress much to your displeasure while women seek out emotional support particularly from peer groups. But in 2011 WW started losing members and that trend has continued to this day. That's weird. What are the mainstream pundits and WW corporate attributing this problem to? The internet and ... free phone apps lol!! C'mon!! I'm sure that has had some impact on them but free and inexpensive diet apps have been around since iPhone exploded onto the market and since 2009 when Android took over the world. How can they arrive at the contradictory conclusion that implicitly impersonal phone apps are massively encroaching on their business model which is built on the foundation of in-person interaction? Phone apps are cool but they don't turn people into go it alone diet survivalists. If that were the case wouldn't WW have imploded at least ten years ago with the expansion of high speed internet market penetration without regard to the more recent rise of smart phones? |
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storytha
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Post by storytha on Feb 3, 2015 16:17:59 GMT -6
Yesterday’s numbers:
Cals 1399
Fat 109.05
Carbs 47.95
Prot 58.29
No WI
B- BP coffee, one Ritz cracker (felt nauseous-drank too much water) L- LC chili w/ sour cream & cheese, spinach dip w/ celery D- Beef Taco S- 110 oz water
Yesterday went well. Got some really good sleep. I’m going to do weigh in on Fridays. The daily up and down bothers me right now. Weather is gloomy and I think it is effecting my small amount of patience.
I had my second massage therapy session yesterday. Not as bruised feeling afterward. That should be it for a while. I’m feeling better. However, I had to tell my Boss some bad business news today and felt my trapezius muscles really clenching. That is totally where I keep all my stress.
Hope y’all have a happy Tuesday.
PS: co-worker just offered me pizza and I said no! Mini-victory!
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rejoicealways8
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Feb 4, 2015 5:55:02 GMT -6
I ate way off the reservation yesterday. Up super early, too, so I am off the scale today and probably tomorrow at least. I also stopped my toning program for a few days...woke up kinda stiff and sore this morning. Probably the bread I had yesterday though there wasn't any binge activity going on. I am waking up at midnight kinda regularly at the moment which is probably a cortisol problem. Ugh. Come on body. Get with me here!  |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 4, 2015 8:18:45 GMT -6
Darin, that is very interesting about WW adding a low-carb option to their plan. Was this just one WW "chapter" (or whatever the local units are called) or was this on a national scale? I was curious about it, but all I could find with the help of google was the usual "low-carb is an extreme fad diet! calories are all that count!" drivel. Of course, that information could have been old, but I couldn't seem to find anything positive about LC from WW. (which may only prove that I searched ineffectively).
Anyway, it would be really great if they changed. I remember my mom doing WW when I was a kid. She lost weight, but she was starving the whole time. My s-i-l tried it a few years ago, and it was the same story. She said at the time that she liked it better than LC (though she'd never tried LC!) because no particular food was off limits, and she knew that though she'd have to moderate her portions, she could eat anything she wanted. But she didn't stick with it, so I guess that didn't work out so well after all. I maintain that I'd rather know that I can eat when I'm hungry, even if certain foods are off limits!
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 4, 2015 8:25:17 GMT -6
Come on body. Get with me here! :hugs:I know the feeling! I hope that your soreness disappears quickly and that you sleep better tonight. My sleep has been adequate, but certainly not stellar. According to my misfit, I usually get 5.25 hrs of restful sleep each night. I'm sleeping 7.5 overall, but only sleeping deeply for 5.25 of them. I guess that's my new normal. When I was taking benadryl, it was 7+ hrs of deep sleep! I also am not loosing the weight that I've recently gained. I was hoping it was hormone issues and would change with the start of a new cycle. It didn't. So my new hope is that it's related to the heavier lifting I've been doing (the StrongLifts 5x5 program). I certainly don't look any more muscular, so it's probably a false hope, but I'm hoping anyway! |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 4, 2015 8:49:23 GMT -6
Have you guys ever read "The New Atkins for a New You"? As many years as I've been doing LC, I had never read an Atkins book before. I have tremendous respect for him, but the one book that I started didn't really speak to me, and I never finished it. Since this one was written by Phinney and Volek (along with Westman, whose name I have heard, though I know little about him) I thought I would give it a try. I really like it! I'm only about half way through it, but I'm impressed. It's definitely more focused on the "how to" part compared to "The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Living". It goes through the four traditional phases of Atkins (induction, etc.) based on the number of net carbs you consume. I have to admit, I prefer counting net carbs and not including fiber in my counts. It's probably just because that's what I did when I first tried LC years ago, but I find that it sort of discourages me from eating fibrous foods if I count the fiber. The New Atkins, on the other hand, requires that you get a minimum of 12 or 15 (depending on which phase you're in) of grams of net carbs every day from what they call the foundation vegetables. These are the veggies that have relatively low usable carbs, so that means lots of fiber, but also lots of vitamins and anti-oxidants and whatnot. If I'm being honest, I know that I don't eat enough veggies, so this requirement is good for me. It's actually a little less specific (more practical?) about the way it approaches protein intake. It just goes by number of portions (using common portion sizes) of protein foods per meal rather than a specific number of grams per day. That works for me since I'm not one of those people that gets a spike in blood sugar from protein foods. I don't think I need to keep a tight watch on my protein intake, though I realize that others do. And like "Art and Science..." it emphasizes getting enough fat to drive ketosis (at least in the early phases - but personally I'll never be going out of ketosis), and drinking salty broth daily. So, I guess I'm doing Atkins now rather than doing NK. Can I still hang out here?   |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 4, 2015 8:54:15 GMT -6
PS: co-worker just offered me pizza and I said no! Mini-victory!
 Those mini-victories add up to HUGE victories! I'm starting to think maybe I should weight just once a week as well. Being disappointed when you step on the scale every single day is no fun. Maybe a once-a-week disappointment would be more manageable! |
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storytha
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Post by storytha on Feb 4, 2015 10:19:35 GMT -6
Have you guys ever read "The New Atkins for a New You"? As many years as I've been doing LC, I had never read an Atkins book before. I have tremendous respect for him, but the one book that I started didn't really speak to me, and I never finished it. Since this one was written by Phinney and Volek (along with Westman, whose name I have heard, though I know little about him) I thought I would give it a try. I really like it! I'm only about half way through it, but I'm impressed. It's definitely more focused on the "how to" part compared to "The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Living". It goes through the four traditional phases of Atkins (induction, etc.) based on the number of net carbs you consume. I have to admit, I prefer counting net carbs and not including fiber in my counts. It's probably just because that's what I did when I first tried LC years ago, but I find that it sort of discourages me from eating fibrous foods if I count the fiber. The New Atkins, on the other hand, requires that you get a minimum of 12 or 15 (depending on which phase you're in) of grams of net carbs every day from what they call the foundation vegetables. These are the veggies that have relatively low usable carbs, so that means lots of fiber, but also lots of vitamins and anti-oxidants and whatnot. If I'm being honest, I know that I don't eat enough veggies, so this requirement is good for me. It's actually a little less specific (more practical?) about the way it approaches protein intake. It just goes by number of portions (using common portion sizes) of protein foods per meal rather than a specific number of grams per day. That works for me since I'm not one of those people that gets a spike in blood sugar from protein foods. I don't think I need to keep a tight watch on my protein intake, though I realize that others do. And like "Art and Science..." it emphasizes getting enough fat to drive ketosis (at least in the early phases - but personally I'll never be going out of ketosis), and drinking salty broth daily. So, I guess I'm doing Atkins now rather than doing NK. Can I still hang out here? :thumbsup:We'll let you stay! |
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storytha
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Post by storytha on Feb 4, 2015 10:26:42 GMT -6
Yesterday's crappy numbers: Cals 800 Fat 45.13 Carbs 46.29 Prot 23.64
B- coffee L- Salad bar w/ ham, egg, & ranch D- chicken noodle soup, 1/2 croissant
Really not hungry yesterday. I had Cub Scouts last night which took up a lot of my snacking time. If I was more open to foods in the morning, I think I could get my calories and protein numbers up higher. But it just doesn't interest me. |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 4, 2015 21:25:32 GMT -6
:thumbsup:We'll let you stay! Yay!  Thanks! |
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rejoicealways8
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Feb 5, 2015 5:25:36 GMT -6
I have been on the scale the past couple of mornings, breaking my two parameters to weigh: good sleep and not before 5:30. Since I didn't each either of those and I don't like the scale number I am not going to report it. I did do toning yesterday so I am back to that feeling good about my little rest from it.
Greta--glad you are finding something that is working for you. That's the key, no matter the content of the way you eat. Cedar is in bloom here and I am suffering for it. Ugh.
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storytha
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Post by storytha on Feb 5, 2015 11:00:35 GMT -6
Yesterday's numbers: Cals 1126 Fat 76.92 Carbs 46.77 Prot 34.16
B- BP coffee L- chicken nuggets D- avocado on toast, shrimp cocktail S- string cheese
Ugh. Feeling bloated today. Took one of my rings off because it was hurting. My sodium wasn't too high yesterday. I don't have an answer. Weigh in isn't until tomorrow, so hopefully this too shall pass.
I bought more protein shakes and promptly left them at home.  Maybe with dinner. |
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rejoicealways8
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Feb 6, 2015 6:57:47 GMT -6
Slept at home last night and also drank my magnesium before going to bed. Though up before 5:30 I didn't wake up at midnight so that's a good thing. Today's work is 100 climbers through out the day. I can do those at all so that means I could actually get it done...I am making the effort to scale back on coffee to see if that positively affects fat loss. I am not eating dairy nor eggs at the moment so it isn't those things. I enjoy drinking coffee, I am not one of those that "need" it to get physically/mentally going. We'll see.
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 6, 2015 7:21:03 GMT -6
Well I'm still 5-6 pounds heavier than my normal range.  I asked my husband this morning if my belly looked any fatter, because I feel like it is, and he looked and had me turn to the side so he could see better, but then tried to worm his way out with weak "hard to say". I told him that I knew that meant yes, and he didn't deny it but said, "well, your legs look stronger! and you probably didn't weigh enough anyway."  He's a lousy liar. But that's good for me, because I know I can tell when he's being honest. And, yes, I know that a wife is never supposed to ask if she looks fat, and that a husband is never supposed to answer (truthfully), but really I am not the kind of wife who is going to blow up at him for an honest answer. He didn't get in trouble at all, I swear.  I've always said that he seems to suffer from this strange delusion that I'm ten times more attractive than I actually am, and that still holds true, and probably always will.  Anyway, that leaves me with the question, "what should I do about this?" Cut back on carbs, calories, or both? My appetite has been insane lately! I don't know if it's because of the increase in exercise or what, but at the end of the day when I've entered all my food, I will be up to or even over 2000 or 2200 calories, and I'm still hungry! I normally eat 1800-2000 which is already a lot for a woman of my size. And my carbs (net) have been around 40-ish per day, so obviously there is some room to cut back there, it just means giving up some of the "luxuries" that I've become accustomed to, like LC desserts and fruit and such. Am I overly freaked out about this? My body has always responded so well to LC before - lost weight quickly and kept it off effortlessly. So I'm just kind of weirded out by gaining weight even while keeping my carbs below 50. This has never happened to me before. What gives? Oh, and just to give a quick report: my allergies are actually surprisingly well-controlled with allegra (decided to try that instead of claritin, and I think it works better for me) and my sleep is okay but not great. I'm not stressed or overworked or anything (well, other than the stress of wondering why the scale keeps climbing!) Life is actually quite good right now, things are peaceful, calm, and happy. |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 6, 2015 7:24:07 GMT -6
Ugh. Feeling bloated today. Took one of my rings off because it was hurting. My sodium wasn't too high yesterday. I don't have an answer. Weigh in isn't until tomorrow, so hopefully this too shall pass.
Hope that you feel better today! |
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gretalyn
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 6, 2015 7:41:14 GMT -6
...I am making the effort to scale back on coffee to see if that positively affects fat loss. I am not eating dairy nor eggs at the moment so it isn't those things. I enjoy drinking coffee, I am not one of those that "need" it to get physically/mentally going. We'll see. I thought the general consensus was that caffeine can help weight loss . . . ? Have you experienced otherwise before? Or maybe it depends on how much caffeine one is consuming? I didn't know eggs could be a problem, either. But dairy, yeah, many years ago (long before I was low-carb) I had this vegan friend who convinced me to give up dairy for awhile. I didn't honestly experience any health benefits from doing so, but I dropped a noticeable amount of weight, and I didn't weigh much to begin with at that point in my life! I had kind of forgotten about all of this, but a few years ago I experimented with Paleo for a short time, maybe two months. I didn't feel that I got any health benefits from giving up dairy (again) so I added it back. BUT I did lose weight during that time! (which also got added back!) Crap, I really, REALLY do not want to give up dairy! But maybe I should.  I found it very hard to be both grain/legume-free and dairy-free. I got really sick of eating the same few foods over and over again. Are you finding it hard to live with such limited food choices? |
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rejoicealways8
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Feb 6, 2015 7:52:01 GMT -6
Hey Greta, I am one of those people who can eat the same thing over and over again. So that doesn't bother me. As far as eggs, dairy, caffeine, this is where individual sensitivities come into play. Doesn't matter what science says, it matters what happens to me. I haven't found that not having eggs or dairy has made any difference in fat loss so I apparently am not sensitive to them regarding that. Dairy is harder for me to control through a day if it is in the house. I am better off not having it here at home and enjoy it out and about as seems pleasant. If I were you, I would be attempting to decipher the reason you are hungry. I think that is either not enough protein or not enough fat in your diet. That would be the first thing I would pursue. And these LC desserts, artificial sweeteners included? Might also be something to look at when you are deciding what approach next to take. Consider going to actual carbs and not net? |
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Feb 6, 2015 12:13:13 GMT -6
I slept really badly last night and woke even more bloated and swollen. So no weigh in. I'm technically below my 50 carbs but been riding too close to the sun and think I'm getting burned.
Yesterday's numbers Cals 975 Fat 54.26 Carbs 45.79 Prot 39.55
B- BP coffee L- Arby's roast beef w/ half bun D- Rice, egg roll, egg drop soup
Almost went for a second egg roll-glad DH snagged it first. Today needs to be about protein. If I'd though ahead I could have made it an egg day. Maybe Saturday. (I need to buy eggs)
DH's birthday is tomorrow. I have nothing for him yet. I'm a horrible wife. But he kinda pissed me off last night so I'm not feeling too guilty. |
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storytha
State
289.6/____/150
Posts: 545
Joined: October 2013
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Post by storytha on Feb 6, 2015 16:22:01 GMT -6
My co-worker just brought in a 5# bag of this:
I officially hate him. |
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Feb 6, 2015 18:21:28 GMT -6
Bad coworker! Bad! I am so thankful I have been so low carb for so long that sweet stuff doesn't tempt me anymore in any way. Other things can (bread, wine) but not sugar things.
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Post by clueless on Feb 6, 2015 20:40:50 GMT -6
gretalyn I don't know if allergy meds could cause you to gain weight but that is what triggered my weight gain. Do you think changing your allergy meds could have caused your weight gain?
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rejoicealways8
State
Posts: 712
Joined: December 2013
Location: UnderTheBigBlueTexasSky
Stats: 151/129/115
Plan: Carnivory
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Post by rejoicealways8 on Feb 6, 2015 22:11:24 GMT -6
Great to see you Cheryl!
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 7, 2015 8:46:49 GMT -6
As far as eggs, dairy, caffeine, this is where individual sensitivities come into play. Doesn't matter what science says, it matters what happens to me. If I were you, I would be attempting to decipher the reason you are hungry. I think that is either not enough protein or not enough fat in your diet. That would be the first thing I would pursue. And these LC desserts, artificial sweeteners included? Might also be something to look at when you are deciding what approach next to take. Consider going to actual carbs and not net? Yes, it's always worth doing those little n=1 experiments! My only theory on my change in appetite was the change in my workouts. I've been doing those StrongLifts 5x5 workouts, which involve heavier weights than the bodyweight workouts I was doing before. I don't know if that could really explain it or not, that was just my one hypothesis. And I have been running again, which I had noticed before increased my appetite, but *not* my weight (I guess the aerobic fat-burning stuff balanced the appetite increase before, but maybe not this time). That's a good idea about looking at my fat and protein intake - I will go back over my MyFitnessPal records today and report back. I don't think that I go crazy on the artificial sweeteners, and I don't think that I've increased them recently, but yes that has been on my mind as well. It's one of the things about the New Atkins program that impressed me: even within your carb "allowance" there is a limit placed on those. I'm not of the mindset (as are many of my friends) that non-caloric sweeteners are just as bad for you as sugar. Pretty sure that's an idea that's been promoted by the sugar industry! But still, it can't be good to go overboard. So I'm glad you mentioned it. I only recently switched to counting net carbs because I felt like psychologically that gave me more encouragement to eat veggies. The weight gain pre-dates this switch. That's not to say I wouldn't go back to counting total rather than net if there would be some benefit! I hope it doesn't sound like I'm shooting down all of your ideas. I'm just thinking them through! I REALLY appreciate your help, and if you can think of any other ideas, suggestions, questions, etc. please speak up. I'd love to know if you think the change in workouts could account for the appetite. I haven't been doing the 5x5 stuff for that long, so I don't really know if that would do it. To give you an example, the primary exercise is squats. I started out doing squats bodyweight only, and at my last 5x5 workout on Wednesday, I had worked up to using 15 pound dumbells for the first time. (And I was barely able to complete all 25 reps, so I will probably stay at 15 next time rather than increasing.) It's higher weight but lower reps than what I was doing before. Those BodyPump classes that I used to take included over a hundred squats each time! But I haven't done that in ages. I think I'm rambling. I'll quit now. |
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gretalyn
State
Posts: 610
Joined: May 2013
Stats: 148/132/132
Plan:
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Post by gretalyn on Feb 7, 2015 8:55:08 GMT -6
gretalyn I don't know if allergy meds could cause you to gain weight but that is what triggered my weight gain. Do you think changing your allergy meds could have caused your weight gain? I sure hope not, because I don't know what I'd do without them! I've been on them for many years, just recently stopped the benadryl and replaced it with allegra. I believe the weight gain started before I made that switch, but I'll look back at my records to be sure. Thank you Cheryl! |
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Those mini-victories add up to HUGE victories! 
Thanks! 
Maybe with dinner.
I asked my husband this morning if my belly looked any fatter, because I feel like it is, and he looked and had me turn to the side so he could see better, but then tried to worm his way out with weak "hard to say". I told him that I knew that meant yes, and he didn't deny it but said, "well, your legs look stronger! and you probably didn't weigh enough anyway." 
He's a lousy liar. But that's good for me, because I know I can tell when he's being honest. And, yes, I know that a wife is never supposed to ask if she looks fat, and that a husband is never supposed to answer (truthfully), but really I am not the kind of wife who is going to blow up at him for an honest answer. He didn't get in trouble at all, I swear. 
I've always said that he seems to suffer from this strange delusion that I'm ten times more attractive than I actually am, and that still holds true, and probably always will. 
I found it very hard to be both grain/legume-free and dairy-free. I got really sick of eating the same few foods over and over again. Are you finding it hard to live with such limited food choices?